Auctions, AREC and Google's return to real estate

Before The Weekend (00:05)

We just go from whenever you're ready in here and happy days.

Kasey McDonald (00:08)

Mm-hmm. Okay, are we on? We are on. Okay.

Before The Weekend (00:11)

We are live.

Kasey McDonald (00:13)

Wow, welcome to Before the Weekend, your go to real estate podcast, where we're cutting through the noise and delivering what truly matters. I'm Kasey McDonald and I'm with my great friend and co host, Pete Schravemade. How are we today, Pete?

Before The Weekend (00:28)

living the dream, Casey. Always living the dream. It's it's c not quite Friday. I the the listeners and the viewers won't know this, but we're because of our busy lives we've had to record this on the Thursday and prepare some content for tomorrow. But how's your week been so far? What have you been up to?

Kasey McDonald (00:38)

Yeah.

Yeah,

it's been amazing actually. I ⁓ have spent the week being inducted into my new role. So really excited to be launching what that looks like across the AREC conference on the weekend.

Before The Weekend (00:55)

Yeah, very good. So we'll see you on the Gold Coast on Friday, Saturday.

Kasey McDonald (00:58)

Yes, you will.

You absolutely will. And ⁓ I hear that you're in sunny, rainy, windy Melbourne, whatever the ⁓ season is today.

Before The Weekend (01:07)

It's been very grey. It's been very cold and wet. It's it's come to be what I expect from Melbourne every time I get down here. Although I have to add the caveat that last time I was here, it was beautiful weather. I just could not believe it. It was like beautiful, mild, 22 degrees. Yeah, when Melbourne's like that, it's the place to be. But at the moment I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Victorians, I'm sorry. It you got two Queenslanders on this podcast, it's just not working out.

Kasey McDonald (01:09)

Ha ha. ⁓

Ha ha.

Yeah, I've al

I know, right? ⁓ well, obviously each week we unpack what's coming up next in real estate, prop tech policy, just you know, everything that's mattered in the moment ⁓ for the week. And of course, just in time for everyone to crack a beer heading into the weekend. And I am really excited to hear about what you're down in Melbourne for. ⁓ now, I'm gonna probably

Before The Weekend (01:36)

Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (01:57)

not say this right. I don't even know how to say it right. It's Ostros, Ostros, however you say it. But what actually is this event?

Before The Weekend (02:04)

Yeah, no one there's no consistency around what they call it. I've heard the Ostros, I've heard the Osterose. And there's no the you know, when you it's actually spelled A U S T R O S. And it is the it is the auctioneering contest. So I I'd been in real estate for twenty years before I heard about this conference, ⁓ or this event. Let's call it an event. It's not really a conference, although it ki it's kind of packaged together as one because ⁓

the Ostros is held. I call it Ostros. I think that's the way it looks. Yeah, Ostros. A U S T R O S. I call it that. the it it looks ⁓ it looks it's an auctioneering contest for all intents and purposes. And most people on this call would not know what that is. And we talk a little bit about that. I've got a pre recorded interview with Jacob Caine. Spoiler alert, Jacob Caine, ⁓ the president of the R E I V and the R E I A coming up and he talks a little bit about why the Ostros

Kasey McDonald (02:36)

Ostros? Yeah.

Before The Weekend (03:03)

But you know, from my perspective, the first I heard of this actu Tim McKibben, the CEO of the REINSW, told me about it a few years ago and ⁓ I went to the first one in Koji and I really could not wrap my head around how the hell these blokes did what they did. It's like it's it's fascinating. It is a if you've never been to one, ⁓ I would highly recommend it. I

And and that's whether you're here in Australia or you're overseas. Obviously it's more difficult I'm not saying jump on a plane and fly to Australia just for the auctioneering contest. we have a lot of other cooler things here like Casey and myself, for example. We're way more fun. But ⁓ yeah, it is it is a very it's a very serious thing. And ⁓ the one thing that I think it does ⁓ really well this particular it's it's there's not a lot of attendees. So, you know, you're going to a conference on the weekend

That's probably going to tell you that they've got twenty-five thousand people at it. such is such as what the noise AREC makes around our millions of attendees that come in. This has probably got, you know, maybe two hundred on a given day, but it's cup it's coupled with the National Awards for Excellence. Now, every real estate institute, every franchise, ⁓ I think we're in an industry that's over awarded.

Kasey McDonald (04:13)

Okay.

Before The Weekend (04:28)

Everyone has an award, yeah. ⁓ you tell me

Kasey McDonald (04:28)

Hey, we love an awards night. In real estate, we absolutely love it. Free champagne.

You get to put a frock on, get your hair and makeup done, right?

Before The Weekend (04:38)

Yeah, I look great in a frock. but the r the reality is like we have we have awards where people don't have awards. They don't don't even have a they don't even have a trophy cabinet for that. We've found a way for an award. We we're gonna do it. ⁓ but the National Awards for Excellence are probably the pinnacle because it's where the top ones from the states, and I believe the states to be the most independent of the lot.

Kasey McDonald (04:40)

Yeah, you do.

Ha ha.

Before The Weekend (05:05)

You know, it's okay being the top of a franchise, but once you're throwing into a bigger pool, how do you compete with and so they you know, we've found ways to divide that down to regional, small office, regional, medium office, regional, big office and you know, the it's prob the probably the most independent, but the national awards for excellence is where the best of the best come and they are judged and awarded as part of that. And and the I was I was actually the judge for ⁓

one or two categories of the National Awards for Excellence this year, which is a huge privilege and one I take quite seriously. So I look forward to that. ⁓ as much as awards nights are probably not my central the central thing I do. ⁓ they're coupled together. So there's two days, at least two days, and then the draw. So they have a draw, which is like ⁓ seeing which horse is going to be in which barrier for the Melbourne Cup. And and that's a big deal because that can decide

Kasey McDonald (05:55)

Yep. Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (05:59)

you're that can decide your fate straight away there. I've been told by the serious auctioneers in the room that drawing the wrong barrier could mean that you don't win where you might have in the first place. ⁓ now I watched the two Queensland Blacks ⁓ did incredibly well yesterday but they didn't make it through to the finals. ⁓ forgot I've forgotten who did. New Zealand are very strong at this. As you would expect, so are so are New South Wales and Victoria are very strong.

Kasey McDonald (06:10)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (06:26)

but we have five or six finalists going through today and they the winner will be decided at the end of today and and therefore announced at the National Awards for Excellence ⁓ this evening. So it'll it'll all be done and dusted. But the more important part, and I've banged on for quite a long enough about this, but the more important part is that it ⁓ this is put on by the REIA, ⁓ the Real Estate Institute of Australia and Jacob Kane, who I mentioned earlier, is

Kasey McDonald (06:35)

Right.

Before The Weekend (06:53)

is the president of that, we're going to hear from him as to what the function of the REIA is. Also something I don't believe is well understood n nationally. ⁓ and it's very important to get your head around ⁓ both those things, the functions. But every year the hosting of the Ostros and NAFE is given to one of the Member States. And recently we saw ⁓ it they've had a fragmented industry from the perspective that Queensland hasn't been

part of the ⁓ the REIA Group and they are like the feeling on the ground here is very, very positive. Queensland's back in the fold. Everything looks to be ⁓ going forward, they you know, the optimism I see amongst the CEOs, the general managers, the presidents that are here, the various roles is that like we've got we've got a mandate to work together and we really want to do something positive for the industry. So

From my perspective, this has been the most exciting one out of the lot because it's not what they're saying, it's the feeling, it's the optimism, it's the enthusiasm that I'm seeing a bit of spark back in the real estate institutes. Not to say that they haven't had that individually, but just as a as a combined group, we are definitely better together as an industry and you know, watch this space because I think guys with guys like Jacob as the president and ⁓ Scott Rollison who's taken over the CEO role in Canberra, he's doing a he's doing a bloody fantastic job. You know, people don't realise that he was part you know, he lobbies the government for and advocates for us. And ⁓ and whilst he might not always have the wins that we want, we want him to, you know, I don't think anyone in the real estate industry was really advocating for the end of ⁓ negative gearing or capital the capital gains tax.

And and maybe there are people so y that might be an overstretch, but the feeling on the ground that I'm getting is that we weren't advocating for that. ⁓ and you know, we might not have the wins, but at least we've got a player in the room and our voice has been heard and that's really important. So so out of this particular conference, it has been great. Only one day in. I've got another day today after we finish recording here and I'm going back to see the finalists ⁓ do that thing. But yeah, it's been fantastic. Thanks for asking.

Kasey McDonald (09:11)

Yeah. No, no,

thanks. And look, obviously, you know, we're going to hear from Jacob, as you said. ⁓ and I think some of the other things that you have been chatting to him about and if we're at an auctioneer competition, right? So I'd probably like to dive into that a little. Just ⁓ around I guess, you know, auction and the market kind of measurement or how in which the industry perceives ⁓ auctions here in Australia. And, you know, ⁓ from some of the

pieces that Jacob did share in your interview was that we use auctions as a broader kind of market health indicator ⁓ in how he shared it. So we're looking at that around, you know, what's the liquid, what's the confidence, what's the sediment, how, how are the buyers kind of psychologically looking? ⁓ and it really kind of then helps us. So, you know, are we ⁓ where are we really in the market? have we got market confidence? So ⁓ you know

What do you think around that? Like where do you think auction plays a part? Or or you know, was that discussed with you and Jacob in your interview about auctions more broadly here in Australia?

Before The Weekend (10:18)

Yeah, well I'll I'll leave that I'll leave that side of it to the interview, but to speak sort of around that topic, ⁓ I think you and I are the same. you know, when I first I d I don't think I met you, but I f first came across your name. You were a property manager at Realway Consultants in Kira, right? Somewhere there. And I was a ⁓ a property consultant for real way I was a salesperson for real way, Rockhampton. ⁓ and

Kasey McDonald (10:39)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Before The Weekend (10:48)

Auction in Rockhampton was a dirty word. Like ⁓ Jacob kind of skirts around this. When when something went to auction in Rockhampton, it meant that you're gonna get a bargain. Like it's dirt cheap. Someone's died. There's ⁓ you know, the concept that we had is that it something only ever goes to auction when it's you know, it can't be sold for the money that it should be. So if we're going there, we're gonna be putting money out. And and I still think

Kasey McDonald (10:59)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Before The Weekend (11:18)

there tends to be areas, geographical areas in Australia where that is definitely the prevailing ⁓ thought. Now, obviously not in Sydney, not in Melbourne, you know, I would say New South Wales and Victoria in general have a very healthy auction culture. ⁓ I'd be lying if I said Brisbane and Queensland and the Gulf Coast didn't as well and and Sunshine Coast. It seems to be the more regional you get, the less likely that view is prevailing.

⁓ and I also know obviously South Australia has a fairly healthy one. Perth does as well. I'm going to suggest that they're metropolitan. ⁓ and I also think that with New Zealand as well. So ⁓ it look my I was in real estate for the better part of fifteen years operationally and I never used it as a facility to sell a house. Now I'm probably a lesser agent because of that. in full disclosure, I probably should have considered that.

If I had my time again, there are some properties that I definitely would have taken to auction. But ⁓ the harder part is if you're cracking into a market like let's say Rockhampton where I was, my role would have been to educate the market and I would have lost a lot of listings ⁓ doing that. And I think there's a bit of a fear factor when you're in one of those markets actually moving forward into it. What a w why is it up to me to educate the market? And that's where I always ended up. ⁓ so it's it

you know, it explains why people haven't heard about this Ostros conference. And I actually think it's more important for people in regional areas who don't understand the art of auctions to actually get along and have a look at this. ⁓ it's not expensive to do so, but so that you might understand how this fits into your local market and ⁓ the particular type of buyer. And and the other thing is you have access to these auctioneers. Admittedly some of them are like cats on a hot tin roof because

This is a contest, right? You know they so yeah spoiler. Yeah y yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah. So and and they're a particular bunch. I think the ty the skill set that it takes to be an auctioneer is not is not it's not everyone's cup of tea, so

Kasey McDonald (13:13)

Yeah. I'm sure there's lots of different jokes. I think I heard in the interview, which I I don't want to be the spoiler alert, but there's going to be something mentioned about a baked bean tin. So I'm a kind of excited to hear what J how Jacob talks about this actually. Yeah.

Before The Weekend (13:38)

But i it's well worth having a look. I won't bang on t on that for ages. I think let's listen to the interview and sort of go from there. ⁓ do we need are there any other topics that we need to cover off before we jump to that?

Kasey McDonald (13:45)

Yeah, fantastic.

⁓ yeah, look, probably you also interviewed ⁓ Anna, who is the NAR emba ⁓ ambassador. So just maybe if you'd like to kind of give an intro of who she is, ⁓ and some of the things you did speak about and yeah, then I'd love to get our listeners ⁓ diving into those episodes. Yeah.

Before The Weekend (14:04)

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah, and full disclosure, I work for ⁓ indirectly for a company I work directly for a company called Second Century Ventures, which indirectly is in partnership with ⁓ the National Association of Realtors of the US. So effectively ⁓ they are a large body of realtors. We'll find this out later on the program. ⁓ they have put together a venture capital fund which they invest in property technology and I'm

I'm the facilitator with my team of my wife and Tom Ellis who's down here in Melbourne. ⁓ we facilitate the management of that investment and run an accelerated program to bolster that. But it's not an advert for me, but I have ⁓ not just through that, but through my former role at BoxBrownie developed a quite a strong relationship with the National Association of Realtors. I've presented to them multiple times, I've consulted to them.

on things like ethical marketing, photography and copyright. And there is there is, I think, a important role for real estate agents and probably for our pig bodies, but even, you know, if you're an operator, to be having a look at how people transact real estate in other lands, I think we'd be stupid if we didn't have a look at that. You know, like we cannot claim the knowledge base for

you know, everything around the world, everything that we're doing is the best in market. We cannot believe that is the case. And certainly I don't. ⁓ one of the things that I see that the Americans do exceptionally, far beyond what we do, is the handling of the purchaser. ⁓ because they have more agents who are dedicated to that in the US and how they approach that and why they do it and the protections that gives a purchaser coming in. where in Australia we operate under a

Kasey McDonald (15:43)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (15:56)

caveat emptor which is a Latin term for buyer beware that coming into the market and you need to do your due diligence into what you're buying. And there's no real hand holding that goes through the process. And now that we're in a supply and demand market where, you know, one of the other issues that we might look at in the not too distant future is how we facilitate first home buyers getting back into the market because that's in the best interests of us. We need to be concerned about industry health. And at the moment

Kasey McDonald (16:18)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (16:24)

supply and demand and the houses coming out of the ground are is very difficult. But to get back to the point, I think ⁓ the yeah, w there's a lot we can learn from looking at foreign the way real estate is transacted in foreign places. Now the NAR are probably the best funded organization in the world, if I had to look at it with regards to real estate agents. And An Anna Post is her name. She's a realtor out of Houston. She works for the NAN group and we'll talk about that in a bit. But what makes her unique

for a ambassador role to Australia and New Zealand, it's it's the first time I've ever seen this, is that she is a she's got a dual citizen. She's an Australian and an American ⁓ who has lived in Australia and that has definitely strengthened ⁓ the value proposition that she brings to the table ⁓ through the NAR. So you know the NAR I they push for things called bilateral relationships.

Kasey McDonald (17:23)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (17:23)

And they want them with associations which our version of that are called REIs or real estate institutes. So Anna is over here to meet the real estate institute CEOs, leaders, ⁓ you know, presidents, all in one location at the same time. And I having I encouraged her to stay on and attend AREC and have a look at that conference as well and see, you know, what's on the ground here in Australia versus what is yeah, what people are delivering in the US. So ⁓

Yeah, a Anna's wonderful human being. I've met her and her husband several times. I was over in Washington at the legislative meetings with them last year and ⁓ just we're really lucky to have her as an ambassador to this area and it's a delight to see her ⁓ here in Australia and ⁓ and a foreign ⁓ a foreign body of realtors who care about real estate so much that they'd send somebody over here to be an ambassador to this to this nation to see what findings

what they can offer in terms of support and what they can learn.

Kasey McDonald (18:25)

Yeah, excellent. ⁓ well, let's not hold up our listeners from ⁓ gathering those insights from both ⁓ Anna and Jacob. And I and absolutely agree. I think there's a lot that we can be learning here in Australia about how ⁓ the they do real estate, ⁓ certainly in the United States in particular. ⁓ so yeah, how about we dive in ⁓ and how allow our listeners to get some great takeaways from those interviews.

Before The Weekend (18:29)

Mm.

speaker-0 (18:50)

G'day folks, Peter Schravemade from BeforeTheWeekend. com podcast. I'm not joined here with my ⁓ wingwoman, Kasey McDonald, but I'm sure she's wishing me well in this endeavour. She's out there ⁓ getting inducted into a new job, which we're going to hear about in just a moment. But I am joined by both the president of the Real Estate Institute of Victoria and the Real Estate Institute of Australia, Jacob Kane. Jacob, thank you for being on the Before the Weekend podcast.

speaker-1 (19:17)

Pleasure. Thanks for having me.

speaker-0 (19:18)

Great. No, that's okay. And what so w

well, thank you for having me because we're at the if you can tell by this we're at the Yeah, the strategically placed cushion. If you're listening, we're sitting on a bench and we're at the Real Estate Institute of Victoria headquarters, which are very beautiful headquarters here in Abbotsford, is that where we are? Yeah. In Victoria. ⁓ talk to me about what's going on in that room right over in front of us.

speaker-1 (19:25)

Strategically applies group.

That's exactly where we are.

We are in the process of watching ⁓ Australia and New Zealand's best auctioneers compete for the title of o an Australasian auctioneering champion. Yeah, in the Austros.

speaker-0 (19:56)

And and it's if you haven't ever seen these before, it's quite fascinating actually. It's not what I don't care what you think it will be, it is not that it's different. It's very different when you walk in. There's not a single person that I bought to this event who has gone, I expected that. Yeah. There are some people that think it's like a cow sal with a one and a two. Yeah, that's right. And then but it's not that at all. It's like it's mental gymnastics, comedy, humour and presentation skills all ro rolled into one. Would that be correct?

speaker-1 (20:25)

It tests every aspect of what an auction looks like ⁓ for an auctioneer out there on the street. But just imagine the context that ⁓ that people find themselves, auctioneers find themselves out on the street and amplify that by a thousand. Yeah. And that's what they have to navigate here. You know, the increments that the bids come in are mind-boggling in terms of the complexity, ⁓ confusing in the delivery often. The contestants or the competitors have to

deal with interruptions, p bizarre questions. There's one in there right at the moment where they keep asking about a can of baked beans that is that was featured in the images for the ⁓ the ad and whether or not they can keep those. So ⁓ yeah just if you've ever been to an auction on the street twist that up turn it up to eleven and that's what these guys are contending with.

speaker-0 (21:18)

Now yesterday, ⁓ we were here for the welcome and the draw. Obviously the draw went before I think this is the heats or something that's going on at the moment or you spoke a lot about the reason why is it called Ostros? Ostros exists, ⁓ and what ⁓ why we're bringing people together. Can you talk a little bit about that?

speaker-1 (21:40)

Yeah, look, I think auctioneering is even though it has varying usage or utilization and popularity around the country through different states and territories, it is one of those core representative activities of the of the sector.

a focal point for the general public a lot ⁓ when they when they think of a real estate ⁓ agent, when they think of the real estate profession, they think of an auctioneer. And

Enhancing that craft, ensuring that ⁓ representation is at its absolute peak in terms of performance, in terms of ability to elicit fantastic results for the sellers of properties and to be able to communicate to the public, you know, the value of what real estate professionals do bring to the transi tr transaction is vitally important. And I think these competitions give those auctioneers that are out there every single weekend

you know, plying their craft an opportunity to hone that craft, but also to get some recognition and feedback about how they do it in the context of yeah as we've already said like a really challenging context.

speaker-0 (22:54)

Yeah, and I notice even like we had the budget drop and I'm gonna ask you a question about that in a minute, but ⁓ I notice even on the back of that they look the first thing that the nation looks at for the impact on housing is clear auction clearance rates. And so ⁓ y you know, even when I had a discussion with Anna Post from the National Association of Realtors and they don't have any auctions over there, they actually have no way of understanding what the property market is doing at a at a given time because they are missing auction.

Yeah.

speaker-1 (23:24)

It's

it's a health check. It's you bang on, that's a really good point that you make that effectively across the country people look to that number to determine whether we're on track, off track, if things going up, things going down, things level. and it and it is a fantastic measure of that. You know, it is has proven its accuracy a as a health check over decades.

speaker-0 (23:46)

Now,

I feel like ⁓ anyone who takes on a one president role has something slightly not right about them. You've taken on two. Mm-hmm. ⁓ do you see a psychologist regularly like what are you doing? How does this work out?

speaker-1 (24:02)

Yeah, you're not the first person to question my sanity in doing that. But look, you know, the opportunities are a a massive privilege, you know, both from a Victorian context and the and the national context to be able to

represent the sector, to advocate on behalf of the sector is it's a privilege. It's an honour and a privilege. ⁓ it's not without its ⁓ complexities and it's not without its frustrations too. You know, and we find ourselves ⁓ you know, about a week out from a budget which ⁓ will have si significant ramif ramifications for the property sector and people across Australia as well. And y you know, the Real Estate Institute of Australia did a lot of work over the past year to you know

move the government from where they were thinking about ⁓ changes to taxation policy as it related to the property sector and and where they landed. And you know we didn't get everything that we wanted. I mean obviously our preference would for ⁓ would have been for the government to leave things as they were and tackle the supply issue, which c you know remains the biggest problem factor in determining or delivering housing affordability for the country. And that's a point that we reiterated over and over again. But

y you know, you have you have to keep fighting, you have to keep going into those meetings and pushing for the best outcomes for the sector because ultimately good outcomes for the sector translate into good outcomes for Australians, you know.

speaker-0 (25:28)

Yeah, and I spoke to Scott, the CEO of the REIA, ⁓ about half an hour ago and he was saying that he was in that budget lockdown and really ⁓ finding out things other than the leakage that happened beforehand. Yeah. He was really finding out on the fly as to what we were dealing with moving forward. So ⁓ yeah, we're very appreciative of the role of the REIA in that. just on the REIA, for the average person out there, how do you operate? Like what's your member base look like?

speaker-1 (25:57)

Yeah. What great question. So effectively the REIA has eight members and they are the state and territory REIs. Plus New Zealand's a completely separate entity, but we have a really strong partner.

speaker-0 (26:09)

New Zealand or are they separate?

speaker-1 (26:16)

It's it's in the pipeline, you never know. There are a lot of progress. yeah, ⁓ so

speaker-0 (26:23)

⁓ Yeah,

speaker-1 (26:30)

Even even though our membership is effectively only eight, eight institutions across the country, and as of July 1, it's the entire country, with Queensland ⁓ coming back into the fray. Really, who we represent are the you know, the hundreds of thousands of real estate professionals across the country. You know, our by proxy, we represent the real estate institutes and they represent their sectors, whether you're a member or not a member, because ultimately, even if you're not a member of an REI in your particular

State or territory, you still derive the benefit of all of the work that they do. ⁓ Become a member, it's worth it. What they do in each state and territory is so important to you in terms of the businesses you run, the roles that you perform out there, but also to your clients and the general public as well. There's a often a misinterpretation, a misunderstanding about the intent of the advocacy work that the REIs do. It is ultimately to build a healthier, more sustainable.

sustainable, equitable housing market and commercial real estate landscape in this country because when that system's healthy everyone derives a benefit from it.

speaker-0 (27:39)

Yeah, and further to that, you know, like the representation that goes on from REIs, I guess you're supporting that framework from a national perspective.

speaker-1 (27:48)

Absolutely. So the line of demarcation is you know you're if you're in Queensland then REIQ is in with the state government there batting for you, trying to get the best possible outcomes in terms of the regulatory environment, the taxation environment that you guys operate within there exclusively in Queensland. REIA kicks in at the federal level. So you know, the negative gearing, capital gains tax, etc., those issues that imp that are federal policies, federal taxation settings.

where we take over and advocate. Always supported by the state and territory REIs, where we whether that's by research, whether that's by you know contacts, etc. Not that ours, you know, we're you know at a federal perspective we're we're really strong in that area. But ⁓ we work hand in glove, I supp suppose, with each of the state and territories, but at a federal level we're we're we're we take the lead.

speaker-0 (28:42)

⁓

I'll move on to another topic now. I mean I could talk about this all day, the national housing shortage. you know, there's we could go down a tangent and talk

speaker-1 (28:51)

That's a few episodes.

speaker-0 (28:52)

That's exactly

right. There's one other thing I want to cover that is relatively new news to most. Google two days ago switched back on their search engine for properties in the US. So they're now popping up all over online and this morning, ⁓ out of the US or overnight our time, ⁓ a major franchise, EXP, has done a deal with Google where they're going to directly syndicate and I think what we'll see is companies like Compass,

Remax anywhere which is the Century Twenty One conglomerate and whatever else I think they will follow in order to get that advantage. What what do you think of this play? What do you see in the pipeline?

speaker-1 (29:33)

⁓ I was i I was in the States last year and at Google when they said this. They said they were coming back into to real estate listings. ⁓ it's a response to, you know, changing ⁓ behaviours around search and ⁓ I feel like it was inevitable. And I I like it

Commendations and kudos to the to those ⁓ organizations that have gotten on the front foot and aligned themselves in a in a way which they believe will be beneficial to their businesses and their the people working with those businesses and their clients ultimately. ⁓ it's it's

Inflection point is probably the wrong term. We're it's a it's a decision point right now, I think, for the sector in how they respond to this. You know, Google we all know is phenomenal in times in terms of scope, size and what it can d deliver.

Can we as a sector compete? Should we compete or should we lean in and find those opportunities to cooperate? ⁓ ultimately and I think this speaks to a bigger question about the sector and the direction where we're what we're gonna go, w where we're going and what the future of being a real estate professional and running a real estate business looks like. ⁓ we're gonna have to confront these types of decisions and work out, you know, what our role is within this, you know, evolving ecosystem of property. So

I've said it to the guys at realestate. com. au and to Domaine as well in the past, like this is a threat to your business model. That that's that's it.

speaker-0 (31:10)

Yeah, well effectively another portal or

another medium at least where people can go and find property detail. That's right. You know, at the moment when we've got portals and like I note realestate. com. au is a major sponsor of this event, ⁓ in their own right, they are the incumbent number one. But you know, you've you've got to sit here and wonder what happens when somebody can search thoughtfully about properties on another portal. So

speaker-1 (31:37)

That's

that's right. And look, I know for a fact that the ⁓ the big players in our marketplace realestate. com. au are working on ⁓ what they are confident will be the solutions that will give the experience to the their users, whether that's you know people searching for properties or their you know their direct customers that are real estate professionals and businesses across the country to try and ensure that they remain competitive, ensure that they still offer the best possible service out there. But it's a

Genuine you know threat to their business model and by default it also, as I said before, kind of calls into question how we operate in that landscape too. Because if people can search through Google and if Google can create a digital twin of every single property out there and they know more about you than you do often in terms of their predictive modeling around.

You know, and things that you know, you b every search is recorded, they know what you're looking for before you've even typed it in, you type a couple of letters. Apply that logic to where you're at a given moment. If you're contemplating selling, you know, and you haven't really even ⁓ you haven't even consciously made that decision, but then they start feeding you information that is gonna pull you further down that road. Or s on the other side of the equation you're thinking about buying or you you're looking at job ads and

all of a sudden you're contemplating relocating to be closer to that job or interstate for that job and they will entice you down that line and they could act as the connective t tissue, right? Which that what happens in a world where Google is becomes the agent, you know, who connects the buyer and the seller, the renter and the investor. ⁓

speaker-0 (33:29)

So should we

pack up and go home now?

speaker-1 (33:31)

Look, I think y what I talk about this pretty routinely with people across the sector, across the country, you know, and the recurring theme is that people need people in these

speaker-0 (33:44)

There's still a

place for a relationship there, right?

speaker-1 (33:47)

100% there's there's there remains the intangibles right the human element the ability to support ⁓ through the emotional tumult of a transaction because wherever you sit whether you are buying your first home, whether you are selling a family home that you've been in for generations, whether you are making your first investment decision, these are incredibly emotionally fraught or weighty moments in your life. And who better to help?

You navigate that than someone who it's a person, yeah. Flesh and blown who understands emotions.

speaker-0 (34:24)

Yeah. Experience

in the sector. ⁓ Jake, do you have anything that you would like to say to the listeners of before the weekend podcast? ⁓ something I ask regularly.

speaker-1 (34:34)

Yeah. Look

We're we're a week out from the budget, less than yeah, a b a week and a half out from the budget. I'd say don't panic. ⁓ for those out there that are concerned, understand as best you can the impacts of the changes to negative gearing and CGT. Credit where credit's due to the government and I know I'll be one of the few people in the property sector saying this, but at least in terms of the design and the implementation timeline for these policies, it was deliberate and

Not to cause a shock in the market to allow people time to adjust. You know, the grandfathering of negative gearing in CGT ⁓ provides this runway, if you like, for people to understand what the implications will be for their clients, for themselves, navigate that comfortably without there will be equilibrium in the market. You know, we can't factor for the extraneous you know geopolitical impacts and the macroeconomic ⁓ impacts, but ⁓ this

won't create a tumult within the market. So just take peace of mind, work out how you are you understand the many implications for you and your clients and then start speaking accordingly.

speaker-0 (35:45)

Good point and one more on that. I've heard or I've seen actually online a lot of real estate agents handing out a lot of property investment advice on the back of the budget. Do you do you have any advice on that?

speaker-1 (35:58)

⁓ look I've seen a lot of misinformation getting about. Like that's and that not just from not from property people explicitly. Yeah, I think people don't understand the changes as yet. And so that's why I say go back and like I could give you a whole episode on insurance terms of understanding.

speaker-0 (36:18)

We'll put your email

in there and you can issue all of the questions to Jacob after this.

speaker-1 (36:22)

Yeah.

I'm I'm happy to take them and respond, but ⁓ you know as a as an example, right? The indexation of CGT, right, that change could be a net benefit to people depending on the hold time and the type of asset, right? I've modeled it on a number of properties and I can I can prove out that you will pay less CGT or no CGT in some instances, right? And if you assume that the you know the market will be relatively flat over the coming years, particularly in certain

jurisdictions like Sydney and Melbourne, which are already in a you know sort of flat or negative context, right? There are scenarios where you would be better off under this thing. Now that's not to endorse the changes to the CGT, but it's not all bad news. Understand the implications first before you ⁓ you start ⁓ start criticizing or complimenting.

speaker-0 (37:16)

Yeah,

and don't panic is the other one that ⁓ Jake said. ⁓ Jacob Caine, thank you so much for your time. Really good to have you on before the weekend. Thanks, please. Cheers. See you, mate.

speaker-1 (37:26)

g'day folks, my name is Pete Shrevmaid. I am ⁓ one of the hosts of BeforeTheWeekend. com and I'm joined here by Anna Post, all the way from Houston, Texas, in the United States. Welcome to our podcast, Anna. Thank you for having No, no worries. And while what how do you find yourself here in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia? Why are you here?

speaker-0 (37:39)

Thank you.

I've

come down, I am the NAR Global Ambassador to Australia and New Zealand, and I've come down to attend the Ostros, NAF awards, and also then I'm going to go over to Queensland to go to the AREC conference.

speaker-1 (38:01)

Very good. ⁓ what is the first off we'll start with a role. What's the role of a NAR? So NAR if you're listening and you're not aware, is the National Association of Realtors, a huge body of real estate agents or realtors as they know in the US. And they have a role, which is the Global Ambassador of Australia and New Zealand. What does that even mean?

speaker-0 (38:21)

Yes. So basically I am a bridge builder. So I am a bridge builder between agents and maybe corporations or the REIs in Australia and New Zealand to the US and then vice versa. So I'll get people that will contact me and they'll say, Hey, I have a client that's looking maybe over in this area. Can you point me in the right direction? And I

to connect them and be a bridge builder and then ⁓ hopefully we can learn from each other's ⁓ the ways practices in both countries we can learn something from each other and make the industry better all around.

speaker-1 (39:00)

Well and that raises a really good point. What do you see as major differences between the way USA real estate operates and the way Australian real estate operates?

speaker-0 (39:10)

One of the well I mean like today we're here for the Austrossioneering is a very huge difference.

speaker-1 (39:14)

Very good.

And have you seen auctioneering done like this before? Absolutely. What what is what are some of the things that you think are different or unique about it?

speaker-0 (39:20)

No, no, no. ⁓

it's ⁓

I guess maybe just the concept behind it, if I've ever had a client that's done something like an auction, it's it's usually for something more like maybe they're buying a flip home and it's a foreclosure and it's all just done behind a screen. There's no live whatever you submit your bid and then maybe they come back and they counter or whatever, but nothing like this where it's the live where people have their hands up and you know asking does this convey with the property or something.

Yeah.

speaker-1 (40:01)

And I can I can relate.

So I come from central Queensland where we didn't see very many auctions like this until, you know, ⁓ later I started to travel more and I wondered how they did real estate in New South Wales and Victoria and this is very centric of down here. So I kinda get that. Well it's good that you got to see the Ostros contest and obviously we've just kicked off here, so we're any into this. Yeah, which is why we're trying to keep our voices down. Yes. ⁓ so ⁓ but you're not just an ambassador, you actually are a real

And and who are you with, what do you do, wha what do you transact, what like as in your residential?

speaker-0 (40:32)

So I'm an active agent as well.

So

⁓ I'm with a ⁓ boutique ⁓ company and it's called Nan and Company Properties. Nan is short for my broker's name is Nancy. right. And so that's that's that's the NAN. and ⁓ we are a boutique brokerage in that we're not like one of the big bigger firms like ⁓ Century Twenty One or you know

Or that kind of thing. But we are associated with things like leading RE. ⁓ whereas we're also associate associated with Forbes Global. we do a lot of global ⁓ properties. ⁓ we do ⁓ so global. I am also a team lead. I have a team with my husband. We're called the Post Team. He does commercial. I mostly do residential, I do a little bit of commercial as well. And so together we kind of cover all of the bases. So we do a lot of

relocation being based in Houston, have a lot of companies coming in and out. ⁓ and then ⁓ and then with that oftentimes it's leases. So actually like helping them lease a property or even listing someone's home a as a listing agent to lease and then I am a buyer's agent and a selling agent as well.

speaker-1 (41:53)

So that let's ⁓ drill down into that buyers agent process because buyers agencies in Australia traditionally haven't really been the dumb thing. Yeah. and we're seeing more and more of them. I you probably haven't had as much of a look, but ⁓ explain to me how you work like some of the processes that you go through to work with a buyer in the US and lead them down the path to a purchase.

speaker-0 (42:18)

Right, so usually what we do is if you're contacted by, you know, maybe it's a referral from a friend or something like that. when you start the process off, i sometimes you go through an interview process, sometimes people are looking to ask a few agents to see who they kind of click with. And ⁓ if you can if you if you're the right agent for them, usually the next step will be you have them sign a buyer or it's called a buyer tenant representation.

agreement. Of course I'm based in Texas, so our this is based on how it's done in Texas.

speaker-1 (42:53)

That's that's basically

an appointment that you can act on their behalf.

speaker-0 (42:57)

And it's a contract,

all parties sign, so I myself would sign it. And then the buyer or the ⁓ tenant, pros prospective tenant will buy it, will sign it's the same form. And usually it's got like ⁓ has my brokerage. It's a it's a it's a relationship between the brokerage and the client. So my broker's information is on there. And ⁓ usually there's a frame of a date, a start date and an end date, you know, anywhere depending on the contract depending on what they're looking for, six months.

to a year ⁓ is pretty common and then you just in there you outlay things like ⁓ you discuss compensation so you're very upfront about and negotiate how and discuss how that happens. ⁓ and then ⁓

And then basically you have that form and then from there you can start showing property. So and they can terminate that ho contract as well at a at any time. So sometimes people get a little worried. They're like, I'm signing this for six months with you. What if I work with you for a month and I'm like, you know what, forget it. I we're not meshing. You can terminate the contract and that's fine and they can you know

speaker-1 (44:01)

So

is six months a standard standardized time frame or

speaker-0 (44:04)

I usually

try to put it down for a year. I mean really you're not most people aren't gonna take a year. Occasionally you do have buyers that are coming in and they're like just starting the process. So they may only be six months out. They may, you know, so you might just put it for that year po because they may wanna still view homes during that time period just to get an idea of neighborhoods and feels for maybe amenities and different things like that. So yeah.

speaker-1 (44:28)

So you

⁓ are not like this isn't obviously your first visit to Australia, you actually have a link to Australia, right?

speaker-0 (44:37)

Yes, I am actually a dual citizen and I lived in Perth. I grew up in Perth, although I do not have an accent. I have an American accent. Yeah, yeah, you picked that up. Yeah. Yeah. I disappoint a lot of people when the when they especially when I'm teaching the I'm an instructor for the certified international property specialist designation with NAR and they'll see Anna Post Global Ambassador to Australia and New Zealand and they're expecting this really cute accent and then I hop on and they're like, ⁓ okay.

speaker-1 (44:45)

Pick that up.

Sounds very much like

a Californian. Very, very good, very good. beyond this, so you've got the Ostra, so you've seen the auctioneering contest for the first time. Obviously that goes through to a final. We've got the National Awards for Excellence or NAFE as we call them. Yes. And then you're going to go and experience the Australian Real Estate Exhibition Conference on the Gold Coast. Yes. I'm assuming you've been to the Gold Coast before.

speaker-0 (45:31)

been to the Gold Coast. never actually for work, really always for pleasure. You know, obviously just go to surfers or then ⁓ you know, Warner Brother movie world, you know, when the kids were little we had we went there. Yes, yeah. ⁓

speaker-1 (45:43)

Very good. ⁓

you're you're kind of getting a bit of both. So this particular part is the real estate institutes, which is the ethical peak bodies, I guess you call them or and if you're an American out there it might be equivalent to an association is the way

speaker-0 (46:00)

Yes.

I would say so.

speaker-1 (46:02)

⁓ and then

you're going to see ⁓ probably a major conference that's run by a franchise, which is very different again, like yes the way that they'll do it. So I'm I'll I'll be interested to get your take afterwards and we'll we'll come back and ask you that.

speaker-0 (46:15)

I'm

very interested to see how the conference goes too, just kind of also just from an Australian perspective, difference from the like N A R N X T expos, different things like that and also how the speakers come up and how they present and the topics. Yeah.

speaker-1 (46:29)

Yeah, and what ⁓ do you have any questions as to what goes on in Australia that you might ask me? put you on the spot.

speaker-0 (46:44)

So I guess no. I don't know if I have any questions.

speaker-1 (46:49)

That's

okay, that's okay. That's okay. ⁓ is there anything else? That's fine. Is there anything else that we should know about your role or what you're doing over here in Australia or is there any particular message that you have to Australian real estate?

speaker-0 (46:52)

questions for you next time.

So, you know, yes I obviously there's not really a lot of buyers agents here, so the one of the big things in the US is referral partners, especially when you're working globally, is building those partners. ⁓ because I'm based in Houston, we have a really strong Australian community. ⁓ that is something that is ⁓ a possibility for an agent over here if they have someone that's moving maybe and they you know, ⁓ so if you have any questions about ⁓ somebody moving to the states or vice versa, if I can reach out to you I'd love to make connections so yep. People can share my information.

speaker-1 (47:41)

We'll de we'll

definitely tag you in the podcast and we'll let you know when it once it's released. So ⁓ Anna Post, thank you very much for joining us on the before the weekend. It's great to see you here in Australia and host you here and I sincerely hope you enjoy your stay while you're here. Thanks guys, catch you later. Thank you. Bye.

speaker-0 (47:55)

I'm having a fabulous time s already, so

Kasey McDonald (48:00)

Some absolutely great insights there shared from Anna and Jacob, Pete, and appreciate you flying solo while I'm ⁓ up here in Queensland ⁓ and conducting those interviews. ⁓ obviously you know, a lot covered there from both fronts. You know, we've spoken a little around the auction piece and of course around those differences in how real estates are operating. One really interesting point, I think, though, that came out of that was Google re-entering.

Before The Weekend (48:07)

Yeah.

Mm.

Kasey McDonald (48:27)

the ⁓ property market. ⁓ so I'd love to dive into that. We've obviously seen the industry framed that's this battle with ⁓ REA and domain in terms of the portals. So w you know, Google coming in, what do you think that means for the Australian real estate landscape?

Before The Weekend (48:27)

⁓

Yeah.

Yeah, look, I mean I I think it I think it's it would be positive if and to be honest, they're not here yet. And a lot a lot of the existing portals are put point to that and say, well that they've actually done this before and they have, and they didn't make it to Australia, actually they were blocked last time that they tried to do it. I think the line was ⁓ the REA group had gone and I d I d look, this is this is all I've heard. So it may

Take it with a grain of salt, the RAA group was one of the biggest ⁓ clients, di you know, actual digital marketing customers of Google, and they suggested look, you will lose X amount of your marketing budget should you go into the real estate space. that's what I've heard. I don't know if it's true or not. So take it as a grain of salt. But ⁓ the reentry in the in the US is very interesting because it's a direct challenge. There's been a lot of conjecture over there about

The MLS. MLS is an an acronym that means multiple listing service. Now we don't really have one of those in Australia. We have obviously a dominant portal being the REA group and that's where we put our ⁓ all of our all the all of our listings. So that we list them to our own portal and they propagate to all of the domains, all of the ⁓ the aggregators, real estate domain

Homely is another one. View Media Group wasn't one until recently. There there are there are a ton of them. There's quite a lot of them out there now. ⁓ in the US, the way that works is very different. So let's say Casey, you're a you're a buyer's agent, ⁓ and you have located Ben and he wants to buy a house, you will go through this whole listing process as Anna described, you'll you'll sign him up.

And then you will go and hunt for a house on his behalf as the buyer's agent involved in the transaction. And so you'll go to the multiple listing service, by the way, which is largely locked down to realtors, people who are ha are licensed real estate agents, and you would get access through your state membership. You would sign up to a state association. If you're in California, it'd be the California Association of Realtors. If you're in ⁓ Te in Texas, in Houston, Texas, it'd be Houston Association of Realtors.

Both of those, by the way, are super big in the US. Like ⁓ those are both bigger than the amount of real estate agents we have in Australia individually. I think Houston has about has about three hundred thousand members, just for reference. I think there's something like sixty-eight thousand ⁓ agents in Australia. So ⁓ both of them substantially bigger. But as a buyer's agent, you would log on there and you would start looking for what Ben wanted in a house and you'd try and find him properties

Kasey McDonald (51:10)

Interesting.

Before The Weekend (51:31)

That matched his description. You would then say to him, When's an a when's an available date? Do you have this Friday free? We're gonna go and have a look at houses. And you would actually, if you're a good buyer's agent, you'd go and you'd inspect those houses with him, and you would attempt to find one that matched his criteria. You would then go and deal with me. I'm the seller's agent, I have listed the one that he's after. We would then negotiate what they call commission splits between us. Casey'd come to me and go,

I'm a better agent than you. Well, you probably wouldn't say that 'cause I'd be the better agent. But you would say something you'd definitely say something along those lines and I would d disagree, obviously, because that's who we are. And and we'd end up where I got seventy percent and you got thirty. No, no. No. But let's just say we were fair and we were good mates. ⁓ and we split it down the middle and I got fifty and you got fifty, we'd go away, do that, the deal would be done, ⁓ with

Kasey McDonald (52:04)

Ha ha.

⁓

Before The Weekend (52:28)

sign the contract, ⁓ I would deal with the seller, you would deal with the buyer. ⁓ at the end of the day the contracts are exchanged. And here is where it gets really messy is because the purchaser, the person that you have represented, Ben, he pays all of the money that goes to you know, settle, we call it. they use another term that's escaping my mind at the moment. Anyway, it's like a settlement. They go to settle. And

the money is dispersed and Ben's money pays me and it pays you. Now, here in Australia we call out a conflict of interest every day of the week because the buyer is paying for the sellers you know, basically paying the seller's wage or commission, commission. Are you all getting commission out of that? But that it's the way that the money is dispersed is the problem. That's that's what the issue is. And there was an antitrust lawsuit.

Kasey McDonald (53:02)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Wage. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (53:24)

Where it was found that the you know, let's say you were dealing with Ben, you might have had ⁓ bigger commission splits with me than with somebody else, because we're mates and I might have been giving you sixty or seventy percent and going, Hey, Casey, bring all your buyers over to me. Don't go and see that other seller over there or that other listing agent. And despite the property being you know, you are not necessarily then acting in the best interests of the buyer who might want to buy the one with the different commission splits.

So the antitrust lawsuit was all about that. And ⁓ that went down over in the US and ⁓ now as a result of that we have these multiple listing ⁓ attacks that have been coming. Compass large real estate agency over there has been driving attacks on the MLS. It's been saying we're gonna keep all of our properties from the L S so other agents, other buyers' agents can't see it. We're gonna list them on our portal in a coming soon kind of thing. So our group gets

access to it. And in the wake of that, so that's been going on for six months. Compass hasn't been very successful in doing that. ⁓ like the American institutions been around for a long time. ⁓ it seems mainly what they've done is piss people off, to be honest. ⁓ so and I think a large portion of that is that consumer base who wants the whole group of buyers looking at it. Google's on the back end of that. So Google has rocked in just now and started putting up ⁓ for sale properties.

Kasey McDonald (54:42)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (54:51)

Very much very similar to how you'd see them on marketplace, for example. But they're a bit more sophisticated. They've got all the details attached to them. you know, it's not like where you go to buy a chainsaw online. I know you're in the market for a good chainsaw. ⁓ you go to buy that online and there's like five photos of ⁓ Greasy Joe ⁓ mechanics shop has uploaded the latest chainsaw that he's fixed and there's a really rubbish description. Like these are fully fledged house ads.

that would compete with some of our portals as to what they have in there. They have started popping up online and it's sent the American market nuts. And then on the back of that, not last night, but the night before here in Australia, which is Wednesday night our time or Wednesday morning our time, I woke up to see that EXP, a very, very large player over in the US and has a has a presence here in Australia, has done a deal that all our listings also go to Google in the States as well.

Kasey McDonald (55:25)

Right.

Before The Weekend (55:44)

Now what I'm tipping, and I said this to Jacob, you've just heard it, is that we're going to see more franchises come out and say we're listing on Google direct and we're going to bypass this MLS. So for them it's interesting times. Like it could be that the American market is going to look more like the Australian market where the buyers find the properties and go direct to the sell listing agents. it's a very uncertain time for the buyers' agents. But one thing I will tell you is that

The NAR has been around for a long time and it will be very hard to knock them off, even if you're a company like Google, with all of the power of Google. ⁓ more what it does, so the impact on Australia, should it come here, well effectively we have another portal then. ⁓ and then it becomes a race to who gets the information first. Now, I mean, we currently pay a lot, like I know.

⁓ people pay an exorbitant amount of money to put their properties up on realestate. com. au at the moment. I know that's just i it's it's getting beyond a joke. It is ridiculous the amount of money that a consumer has to pay to put their ⁓ their property on the largest portal and fairplay to realestate. com dot au. They got themselves into that area. they deserve the market ascendancy there, but

You know, if a player like Google actually comes to the Australian market and genuinely tries to take that off, what that does by default, and you know, the REA group domain will know this, is that it lowers their profit margins. It it doesn't matter what they say about it, they will definitely sustain a hit, even if they're unsuccessful. So then the prices that we are paying to realestate. com. au would come down in order to combat that. And, you know, the shareholders for the REA group

won't be happy about that because they're a publicly listed company and they r they need to report to shareholders. Those guys aren't going to be getting the dividends. In the end, the benefit is to the consumer. So, ⁓ you know, the consumer pays less to put that portal to put that listing up on the market in order to attract a sale. So from my perspective, the more competition that we have over here, the better it is. ⁓ you know, I even thought CoStar purchasing domain was a great thing because, you know, they

that would have if they injected more money into it and it seems that got stalled. But had they injected more money into that, even the fact that they erode a little bit of the dollar value, the cost of the listing, of putting the listing up online, you know, that's of benefit. ⁓ but I am firmly of the belief that competition is super healthy in any market. when you have a player that's too dominant

Somebody loses. Somebody loses. And you know, we're in a market with vendor paid advertising. At the moment, the seller is paying extortionate fees to put that price up that properties up online. That's just the reality of it, whichever way you butter it. ⁓ but a couple of things, you know, that we haven't spoken about out of that. Like I don't I'm not sure whether you're aware, but Domain launched a massive rebrand and refr not rebrand, refresh of their thing this year. Have you heard anything about that?

Kasey McDonald (58:51)

⁓ of the AI searching behaviors of the all of their di all of their digital b I guess both groups have also done kind of the digital floor planning. Like there's lots of different things that are coming out. But which one are you specifically mentioning?

Before The Weekend (58:54)

N no. They got

Yeah,

well that's that's w Domain got all I believe Dema Domain put all of their ⁓ big plays into a room and said the here's what we're doing this year and one of the big things coming out of that is an all in one marketing package where because they own CoStar, who owns Domain, also owns Matterport, you know, they g they're going heavily into that area. We can do three sixty listings, we can get all your photos done, we can do the floor plans, you know, the data overlay that comes with that with some of the providers, like Little Hinges does that. ⁓ they

the that is a big that is a big deal and you know now all of a sudden the REA Group have a three sixty provider that they've acquired just out of the blue like that. You know, who would have thought what great timing just on hot on the heels of domain. So ⁓ yeah we're gonna like that's great. That's great news. ⁓ one thing one thing that I have to say to the listeners out there is one if you're a real estate agent or a property manager

Who owns the imagery, who owns the data behind the imagery, ⁓ you really need to get your head across that because, you know, if you're paying for something, my belief is, like if I pay Kasey McDonald, she's a photographer in my area, she's gonna go out and capture all of this, I'm paying you a commercial service, I will have an arrangement with you that will hand all of that information over to me.

And so one of the biggest things in this the whole of this marketing play is who owns the data. Like if I get Mataport's three sixty camera, do they own that? Do they own all of the data behind that? What are they doing with that data? What's it being used for? Are they selling buyers that might have clicked on that to other listings? And you know, one thing that you don't want to do is you don't want to be attracting buyers to your property that are that are being sold to

Kasey McDonald (1:00:50)

Great point.

Before The Weekend (1:01:00)

Bill Smith, the agent down the street, who's paying more money to one of these for that information, ⁓ who you know, who might be selling a similar property to you. So control of marketing is actually super important for operators and it's something that is well worth thinking about and well worth asking the question if you get ⁓ your account executive in front of you next time.

Kasey McDonald (1:01:21)

Yeah, really, really great point there. And also I do know with both of them, they are advancing ⁓ their AI searching capabilities, right? And we absolutely know that consumer behavior in this space ⁓ has been changing for a little while now. And I think from even from that piece, understanding what does that actually mean, you know. So when you are looking at w what are those keywords we need to be putting in adverts, I mean, you want your

property to be front and center, regardless of, you know, where it is positioned. But I know I don't go and, you know, my hubby and I are like, well, do we buy an investment property now? What does that look like? Should we do some rentos on the house? And I'm going in and having a look at property again ⁓ and kind of seeing what's out there and what does this look like for us. And I'm actually not even going to the portals. I'm just going to

Google or Chat GPT, you know, Gemini and kind of going, This is what we're thinking. We're looking at this renovation. We maybe want it to look like this. And then it is filtering me everything. And it's obviously putting the sources of where it's coming from. And predominantly that's not always coming from an REA or a domain as the first listing type it's showcasing to me. So ⁓ you know, yeah.

Before The Weekend (1:02:39)

It's a it's a r it's a real problem, Casey, because the

consumer the for the first time ever in the market, the consumer is moving away from REA Group. And they're moving away because their expectations of results in the search engine are not what they're getting from the REA search engine. And I'd even suggest domain. I think domain have less to lose here, but the biggest issue if you wanna confront the elephant in the room is if I'm an agent, Bill Smith again in my suburb, or I'm Peter Shravermade and I want to pay

to get my listings high up top in the market, which is one of the subscription models that you know REA Group has. ⁓ how does that then filter through to the consumer who wants to search for a particular house when that house isn't that top listing? And that's I don't think that's something that the REA group have solved for just yet. And I, you know, they're trying to put all of this artificial intelligence out there, but it until they solve for how they're going to monetize that particular part.

I think there's going to be a real overlap in in the consumer moving away from them in exactly in the way that you said at the moment, where you do a search online ⁓ and you're you're pulling up sources that aren't, you know, might not be the dominance in the area that are giving you search results that match you better. So really, really good point well made and it's an interesting space. And with Google coming into if Google comes into the market, you just you know, you multiply that all by another player.

You put another player in the market that's probably going to be free and just rely on advertising. Look at the damage that would cause to the portal wars, if that's what you want to call them.

Kasey McDonald (1:04:12)

Yeah, absolutely. Well, ⁓ we've covered off some amazing things this week, and there's obviously a hell of a lot more that's, you know, ⁓ happened andor about to happen. And we're leading into ⁓ the weekend, and we obviously have their biggest Australian real estate convention ⁓ about to commence ⁓ on the Gold Coast. ⁓ I'm looking forward to it. I'm personally going to be there. I know you are too, Pete. We're probably gonna be walking around.

Before The Weekend (1:04:18)

Hm.

Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:04:39)

doing some interviews for so any of those listeners ⁓ who were going to be at Aric and who would love to have a chat with before the weekend dot com, ⁓ make sure you find myself and Pete ⁓ at Aric. But ⁓ what do you think we can expect on the weekend, Pete?

Before The Weekend (1:04:40)

Mm. Yep.

Yeah, I think so I think it'll be subdued, to be honest. ⁓ if I'm if I'm gauging the feeling, a lot of the people at I think would normally be at AREC on the weekend ⁓ are not attending this year. ⁓ I you know, ⁓ there could be multiple reasons for that. ⁓ generally, you know, and I've said this to you off air a few times before, ⁓ AREC was on a on a downturn as far as attendee numbers were concerned just before COVID.

And I actually think COVID came in and to an extent saved the conference. All conferences, by the way, have a life expectancy. ⁓ I think that's important to understand. Inman in the US is on a massive downer at the moment. There's no other way of putting it. ⁓ from its heyday when I started a attending in two thousand seventeen, man, that conference was buzzing. It was it was hot, it was prime. I was seeing new things all the time. I was meeting players who were doing stuff that I'd never seen before and they're

the opportunity for that. A lot of Australians travel over to Inman thinking it's the hello ground at the moment. It really isn't. There's there's not a lot that I'm seeing that's new out of that. I think they only had three vendors in New York. Three vendors at a conference. This is a conference that I entered a start up alley that had seventeen to twenty players. So it's a it's a far fall from grace there. And and if we compare that, like it would be only natural for the Australian Real Estate Exhibition Conference or AREC as we call it

Kasey McDonald (1:06:02)

Wow.

Before The Weekend (1:06:18)

to be on a downer. ⁓ I definitely believe they were prior to COVID. I think we're seeing the same thing now. You know, like if I look at the numbers since COVID, I think they had 4,800. ⁓ on the first return back, that's what we calculated. That's not their official figures. By the way, if you're going by official figures, don't ever listen to what Aric put out because it's never it's never correct. You can there are defined ways that you can you can see who is there and there are so many ways to fudge those figures.

Like who gets free tickets as opposed to paid tickets? ⁓ are your speakers, are your exhibitors included in that? are your staff included in that? There are so many ways to sort of make it look bigger than what it is. But yeah, it's definitely on a downer at the moment. So I'm anticipating a lower crowd. ⁓ probably not as low as the one just before COVID, but I think it I think it's going to really struggle for

⁓ its place in the market. And I think there are a lot of other really good conferences coming in. I see Arvi Khan from Ray White had a killer conference at the start of the year. There are some really cool ones coming out of the ground. Obviously ⁓ you know, I'll give a shout out to RER Q lift. I am involved in that full disclosure. ⁓ so you know I don't want you thinking ⁓ that there's some kind of pay paper fee there, but there are there are some different conferences emerging out of the ground at the moment. ⁓

Kasey McDonald (1:07:21)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (1:07:42)

I know, you know, realestate. com. au has bolted bolstered their conference. They have some incredible speakers coming out of the ground and some of the states have stepped up. Like Reese's got a sick conference coming out of the ground down in Adelaide on the twenty fourth of June. And ⁓ we'll be hearing from Andrea, you know, just at the end with a bit of a puff piece on that as well. So I think I think we're you know, there's a state of the conferences, there's the cost of living. Like a lot of these agents who had disposable income

Around towards the end of COVID. Remember how good the market was then? They don't have that. The cost of ticketing at ARK's gone up. ⁓ the cost of being a vendor at AREC has gone up. That everything's more expensive than it used to be. The cost of accommodation there. Yeah, it's a it's a tough space at the moment.

Kasey McDonald (1:08:31)

Yeah, well, I'm really, you know, I'm looking forward to it. ⁓ I think as we kind of mentioned earlier, ⁓ you know, real estate agents, yeah, we love to have a beer, we love to have a wine, we like going to a party. And I think you know, at AREC, that's where we do all of our best work. I know we've got fantastic speakers and we've got amazing vendors and suppliers there as well. So do make sure that everyone gets around to look at those. But I think most of all, we have our best chats over a glass of alcohol.

Before The Weekend (1:08:55)

Well we met.

We met.

I don't know if you remember this, but we met at the Loose Moose. it wasn't during Aric, but we le well, you and I met with Brad, Brad from Box Brownie. We met at the Loose Moose going back some way. ⁓ so yeah, I think it's more you know, Aric for me is more about catching up with the people I haven't seen in the industry. I just don't think there's gonna be that many of them there this year. That's my hot tip. But hey, guess what? We can talk about it next week and I can tell you whether I was wrong or right or wrong. And ⁓ yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:09:02)

Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ hot topics for next week.

Before The Weekend (1:09:28)

Yeah, and also if you are going to be there, you can either hit us up on our social media, Peter Shravmate Kasey McDonald, Tataki, if you're looking for her. She's she's got another name at the back of it. ⁓ courtesy of our husband. And ⁓ we yeah, we'll be in the area. So if you want to catch up with us, definitely hit us up.

Hello at before the weekend. com is the email address. You can find us there as well. ⁓ and don't forget, I should also give a shout out to the fact that I think we're on five or six different streaming services now. ⁓

iHeartRadio is one of the new ones that we've added this week, Amazon Music, ⁓ Apple iTunes, Spotify, ⁓ the actual website itself. So you should be able to find us on any of the forums that you want to engage with. ⁓ and we'll have this episode up obviously before the weekend. So ⁓ yeah, that'll be great. but yeah, hit us up if you need us.

Kasey McDonald (1:10:11)

Mm.

Fantastic.

Thanks, Pete. And thanks to of course our guest ⁓ interviewees that ⁓ you spoke to ⁓ for today's episode. ⁓ and for everyone, have a fantastic weekend. ⁓ enjoy your Friday afternoon and ⁓ as we say, before the weekend dot com podcast. Thank you. Bye.

Before The Weekend (1:10:33)

See you before the weekend. Bye.