136,000 Ghost Homes and the Sick Vendor Who Can't Drop His Price

Opening: episode 25, a quarter century, and two PMCs in one week

Peter Schravemade (00:07) G'day, folks. It is Friday, the 30th of October, 2026, and this is a bit of a milestone episode for us. Kasey, I I know you're joining us from New Zealand, but congratulations

Kasey McDonald (00:17) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (00:18) to us. We've made episode 25 from what started

Kasey McDonald (00:20) Ha

Peter Schravemade (00:22) to be a a great idea over Red Wine. this beforetheweekend.com has turned into a bit of a juggernaut.

Kasey McDonald (00:30) It has.

Peter Schravemade (00:31) I I I don't know about you, but I'm always humbled when somebody comes up and they say they listen to me. I wouldn't listen to me. So I don't I don't know what kind of advice

Kasey McDonald (00:40) Hmm.

Peter Schravemade (00:41) I can give you if you keep on tuning in, whether there is something wrong with you that maybe you need to see a specialist or a shrink for. But you know, maybe Kasey, they're not tuning in for me, but maybe they keep tuning in for you. Where are you? How was your week? What's going on?

Kasey McDonald (00:52) Yeah, possibly. w what an amazing week. But yes, likewise incredibly humbled because I think we both were at the First National property management conference earlier in the week on the Gold Coast and I had several of the attendees come up and say, we love listening to your podcast. I listen to it every morning when I'm on my walk. And whilst they might not get through the entire episode at that time, You know, they're constantly listening to it every day. So super humbled that we've got an audience, Pete. that look, we never thought we'd would get to episode twenty five. but here we are today. but yes, Crazy Week, full of conference and events for me, which is also the same for you. specifically of course in the property management space across Australia and New Zealand. But yeah, really awesome learnings actually, across both. So Awesome people in attendance. great conversations I think has been had this week.

Peter Schravemade (01:53) Yeah, I I I you know, I I was stunned by a few things. Obviously you've you've snuck in one more com conference than

Kasey McDonald (01:59) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (02:00) me, which is actually quite unusual. You've you're over in New Zealand at the

Kasey McDonald (02:03) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (02:03) moment at at David Faulknor's event. I what's it called? I've forgotten.

Kasey McDonald (02:07) PM so property management conference are they PMC ab abbreviated. PMC in New Zealand. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yes.

Peter Schravemade (02:11) Every every everyone's got a PMC. How many how many PMCs are there? Because it was First National PMC that we were at at the start of the week. And and and then we're I'm gonna be seeing you at the REIQ Awards for excellence tomorrow night. is it tomorrow night? Yeah, it's so that is tom it's

Kasey McDonald (02:24) Mm-hmm. Saturday night, I know. Yes, yes, I'm on a very early flight.

Peter Schravemade (02:29) it's tomorrow, Kasey. Just for reference, it's tomorrow, Saturday. It makes it sound so far away, but I know you I know this is called before the weekend, but that's on on the weekend, so

Kasey McDonald (02:31) Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah. It does. Okay.

Peter Schravemade (02:40) Just letting you know that one is tomorrow. So you're gonna have to realign your days. I and I posted something to social media I got cooked on this week because I got the date wrong by four days. So you did you absolute you

Kasey McDonald (02:49) Yeah. Didn't I do that last week in the podcast? I was like, I don't even know what week we're in. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (02:56) you absolutely did. You l you missed five days and then I did it four days later after

Kasey McDonald (02:59) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (03:00) laughing at you. So okay, we're both idiots. but

Kasey McDonald (03:02) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (03:04) I was I was stunned by by a couple of things. The the congr kudos to the First National corporate team for getting that many property managers into into a room. I

Kasey McDonald (03:15) Yeah, fantastic.

Peter Schravemade (03:17) I I think it's been very hard to get bums on seats at any conference this year, and they really had people turning up from like the far flung northern West Australia offices that

Kasey McDonald (03:26) Yeah. Carata. Mm.

Peter Schravemade (03:29) yeah, unbelievable. And they they lured them all the way to the Gold Coast with hopes of glory. Hopefully hopefully y yeah.

Kasey McDonald (03:35) Beautiful sunshine weather and it was stormy and rainy and humid.

Peter Schravemade (03:39) Hope hopefully those average presenters that they had there like Hermione and me and you and Katie Cotton and who else have I missed? Julie d Julie Davis. Hopefully

Kasey McDonald (03:47) Julie Davis.

Peter Schravemade (03:51) we provided some kind of value or maybe they'd just left going, gee, that guy was a wanker. But whatever way. We it was really good to see you and see you and them and and yeah, it was what a what a I was stunned at how well Without any discussion, the presentations of the speakers concepts aligned.

Kasey McDonald (04:16) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (04:16) there are there was overlap of you and Hermione and you and Julie, and then you and and what I presented on tech. There was definitely overlap between what Hermione presented and where I was at, but not kind of standing on your your toes overlap. It was

Kasey McDonald (04:30) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (04:31) more that they were synergistic in the way that they move forward. So

Kasey McDonald (04:34) Correct. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (04:35) It's good that as various presenters or or or guest speakers on at least property management conference topics, we we are aligned in the direction that we're thinking in the ways to move forward. So you know, kudos to all of them. I'm sure that the PMC one that you're over in New Zealand is going to be a great success as well. Let's move on to content rather

Kasey McDonald (04:58) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (04:59) than bang on about what we did and what we're going to do. So we got you know, just to run you through the topics for today,

Kasey McDonald (05:07) Mm-hmm.

The warm-up: another rate rise, 39 days on market and 15 to 20 per cent leaving

Peter Schravemade (05:08) look, I I think we're looking at another interest rate rise next week. And as as you know, I I don't really focus on that because if if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably already aware that of the interest rate rise. And if you're not and you you follow more than one property professional's real

Kasey McDonald (05:26) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (05:26) estate page, you're gonna be hammered with it whenever happens or it doesn't happen because they will have that automated. But the everyone is expecting another,

Kasey McDonald (05:33) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (05:34) yet another interest rate rise, which would win the 17th under the current government. Look, I can't I can't see that stopping. Everyone seems to be blaming that on the gross spending for the f that the federal government is is doing and probably successive governments. I'm not I'm not going having a go at Labor and Liv Liberal, but we are spending too much money. The only outcome for that that we seem to have in our society. is for the RBA to put a handbrake on the economy by raising interest rate rises. And I think unemployment factors into that as well. So that's likely to happen. We've got some Cotality October figures

Kasey McDonald (06:13) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (06:13) that show why sales meetings feel a little bit stuck. New listings are down 9.2% year on year. Total stock in the market is up 23% because capital cities are now days on market have blown out from 23 to 39. We've got a bit of a story on NAB rent roll valuation warning. Now, I believe there was something about this last week, but this one's a bit more interesting where it's noting that 15 to 20 percent of property professionals are reportedly exiting the industry, which is aligns with what we were talking about last week and the week before. So bit of validation, a bit of data and figures on the numbers that we already suspected were happening. In Victoria, we've got a six-year trust audit suspension and a December one cord deadline for Consumer Affairs Victoria or CAV. They announced a three-month license suspended for a Victorian agency, six consecutive years for trust account audits. I mean, we've seen a few of these come through, and we'll talk about that in more length. there's a quick reminder that the October pet reforms, if a landlord stays silent on a pet request for 21 days. It triggers automatically unconditional approval. That's gonna be great

Kasey McDonald (07:27) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (07:28) with my pet crocodile. but the there's we've got some information on sharehouse study in Darwin's $4,680 surge from a Swinburne research seat researchers national study. But why don't we dig in? And this this week I've decided to draw draw actually after feedback.

Kasey McDonald (07:51) Mm-hmm.

The new format: property management first, then sales

Peter Schravemade (07:52) I've decided to divide the episode into two areas. it comes after feedback from you you, our listeners. We're going to separate the sections into two. And so the the first one is is more I I shouldn't say more in your area, but given that you have more of a I I know you you know you've you've been in the sales industry, but you've had always had more of a PM focus, whereas I tended to have more of a sales focus. So We're gonna divide it and I've decided decided this week we're gonna start with property management stories first. So I don't think you've seen this first one. Do you want me to go through it and get your reaction to it? Is that what you wanna see? Like have did you see this article prior to this morning or is this

Ray White's 136,000 ghost homes against 0.9 per cent vacancy

Kasey McDonald (08:32) No, I haven't actually. And it's just obviously, you know, a great timing considering it's Halloween on Sunday, right? Or Saturday, whatever day we're right, the tomorrow.

Peter Schravemade (08:41) Absolutely.

Kasey McDonald (08:42) So yeah, just in time for Halloween. So I I can see that it's coming through as Ray White's a hundred and thirty six thousand ghost homes.

Peter Schravemade (08:50) Mm.

Kasey McDonald (08:51) So no, I haven't actually read it. So yeah, let's start let's dive through it and we'll hm

Peter Schravemade (08:54) Yeah, let me let me talk yeah, I'll talk you through it. So R Ray White, data analyst, has dropped a national analysis and it reveals 136 dwellings are sitting completely unoccupied. It's calling it ghost homes right

Kasey McDonald (09:07) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (09:08) at Halloween time. And that it's saying the report says that it's it's generally in high density pockets, regional holiday hotspots, and it it that they seem to have the highest empty home concentrations. Which is no surprise. I th you know, I suppose if you've got the money, like the the wealthier side

Kasey McDonald (09:27) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (09:28) of society are going to have spare homes in, let's say, Noosa. Now that seems to be where most of them have been report recorded. But the report landed in the same week property managers in Perth and Hobart are battling point nine vacancy rates and one to one point four percent in Adelaide while fielding abuse from dozens of rejected applicant applicants per open home. So I guess there's two sides to this story or three actually if I really want to look at it. The first one being politicians and media component commenters love waving empty home stats around to blame landlords and agents for hoarding stock. And we've been talking about this has definitely formed a lot of the conversation going around at the First National PMC, where they blame landlords and agents for hoarding stock while ignoring owners to leave properties empty with punitive land taxes. Look, I I I am sympathetic and I think I think you will be too to the tenants who can't find a house because there's not enough stock to go around. Now I the question I have for you is is that the fault of the these I I'm gonna say wealthier citizens who can afford to leave something vacant and not have it tenanted for large portions of the year is it is it their fault that we're sitting there or is or do they have a right? Do I have a right? I and I don't have one, but do I have a right? Let's say I was super rich. Do I have a right to own a secondary house in let's say what's a cool suburb? Let's say I have an apartment on the Gold Coast that sits vacant. And this would be a great example because we you and I spend a lot of time on the Gold Coast. It's like the Vegas of America that I used to do where Everyone wants to go to the Gold Coast. All my conferences are there are there. It would make perfect sense for me to go and purchase if if the prices were relevant, a a two better on the Gold Coast or something like that, where I could say, Hey guys, you know, we could stay in here and we could save money and I could put that in the short term rental pool. But some some people who can afford to don't even do that. They just leave it vacant and they'll they'll travel there. What what are your thoughts?

Kasey McDonald (11:42) Yeah, look, I think there's probably a couple of things there. And I think everyone has a right to, you know, as a homeowner, to choose to do what they want with that home. and that's not to excuse that yes, there are many out there right now that unfortunately don't have a home and a roof over their head, and you know, are homeless and living in tents. But I think maybe out of this as well, it they're potentially s it's stock or it's homes in those locations where maybe the rents would actually be higher anyway, you know, if we're talking about the Gold Coast, you know, the rents one of the highest in Australia. So even if they looked to correct, right? Like if they if they're in those kind of holiday locations

Peter Schravemade (12:21) Yep. Yep. Gold Coast, Noosa. Yep. Bright Brighton. Yep.

Kasey McDonald (12:28) where the the stock actually is, would it actually be attractive to a tenant? You know, what how many applications would they be getting? The com the competitiveness of What agency do I choose? but more importantly, we don't actually also understand why the owner has held it. It could be a deceased estate, it could be totally unrenovated, maybe it doesn't actually meet compliance standards to have it in the rental pool, which we all know in Victoria or New South Wales with so many changes to those legislations coming to play and already in play. Maybe the cost to actually do that means it's actually easier because I own it outright that I leave it sit. And I can use it on the weekends if required or when we're going on family holidays. So yeah, I think it's kind of a bit tough, you know, like as soon as they kind of pull it into a rental pool, there's so much more that's involved than it is than having maybe it sitting vacant. So,

Peter's fix: finance to bring below-standard stock back to market

Peter Schravemade (13:21) Well, well, there's there's one there's one part of this I'd like to highlight. So, you know, the ones in inside of this, it says, you know, the unrenovated deceased

Kasey McDonald (13:28) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (13:28) estates or owners deliberately leaving secondary residents unleased because renting them out triggers land threshold

Kasey McDonald (13:33) Yeah. Correct.

Peter Schravemade (13:36) tax or threshold land taxes and minimum standards upgrade bills that exceed the net yields. Now,

Kasey McDonald (13:41) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (13:42) I think that's easy fairly easily solvable. Like if i if you if you actually started something, you operate in this area, like you guys have a your y you know, your day job is for real flow and there are other companies out there that do this, but where where a landlord could actually s signal that they that you know they could get this loan to get them up to minimum standard quality and they could pay it off over a period of time, like that is a solution to some of these that that are sitting there on the market in in a minimum standards and What would be even better is if the government stepped in and said, Look, if you're in that scenario, apply for this. And I don't know, maybe they're discounted interest to in order to get it back on the market. And that money is just taken out of the yield until such stage, like we we should be able to source a way around those minimum standard ones and the the the deceased estates that are sitting there. They're the ones that kind of get me. Like

Snowbirds and the right to own a second home

Kasey McDonald (14:42) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (14:42) if I I I I defend a a wealthy person's right to have two homes. And by the way, I've done a bit of research on this. I've looked at secondary dwellings in the US, and the amount that we have in Australia by head of population and by housing market lines up exactly with the US. They have these things called snowbirds in the US. Have you ever heard of a snowbird before?

Kasey McDonald (15:04) No. No.

Peter Schravemade (15:06) They they're these are migratory patterns of people, or I think they also call them the gray nomads here. But they're generally people who will go, we have it in the reverse order because of northern southern hemisphere. These people will live in New York in the summer

Kasey McDonald (15:20) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (15:21) and then they'll go down to Florida where it's warmer in the winter. And and so they're called snowbirds. They're actually avoiding the snow that I want to and they'll have houses in both ends. Now, we used to have more of that in Melbourne, where they'd stay in Melbourne for the summer and then they'd come up to Queensland for the winter. And that, you know, they could live as far north as Cairns. Cairns is Beautiful in the winter. It's it's like equivalent to a Melbourne summer and they kind of get the best of both worlds. but yeah, we the we it's equivalent. Like in in first world societies, we it's not like we have a pandemic of these. Like there are more

Kasey McDonald (15:54) No.

Peter Schravemade (15:55) than other first world nations. Nobody else is pa panicking about it. It's just the fact that we don't have enough houses to go around, that we're we're placing, you know, more emphasis on this. So I think you know, I I think the two stories coming out of this is if there were general genuinely a hundred and thirty six thousand ready to lease homes sitting idle in working commuter suburbs, there wouldn't be as much pressure on the PM. So we wouldn't be dealing with 40 applicants per inspection and rent rules roles wouldn't be fighting tooth and nail for every new management.

Kasey McDonald (16:27) Correct, exactly.

Peter Schravemade (16:29) It's it's definitely worth a talking point, right? Like we

Kasey McDonald (16:32) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (16:33) there I I think there is a percentage of that that could be saved.

Kasey: tax changes and stock that may never suit a tenant

Kasey McDonald (16:36) Yeah, and I think look, you know, probably as a part of some of the recent changes through the tax reforms has maybe also meant that some owners are sitting back and holding because now having that become an investment property means that, you know, I guess some of those negative gearing changes that have gone into play, maybe that's meaning that now they're not choosing to do this when possibly they could. So I think with you know, without understanding everyone's circumstances or, you know, is that property in a great commute commute area? Is it going to be easy? Is it in an area where it's actually going to be such a high a rental amount that those in the area are also at their affordability ceiling as well. So I think there's a little bit to kind of dive into really uncover, but I do agree if they are in a position that they can rent it out, maybe they do need to have funding to get those minimum standards done, I think, you know, the government should be potentially looking at those and seeing what it is that they can do to be supporting to ensure that we can get some of those homeless off of the streets and get a roof over their head.

Peter Schravemade (17:43) Yeah. And don't forget some of those are sitting vacant because there are some suburbs that have decided that you need to have more, you know, there's more red tape on short-term rentals

Kasey McDonald (17:51) Yes, correct.

Peter Schravemade (17:52) and because it's so I think there's more than meets the eye to that story, but let's move on.

Kasey McDonald (17:57) Yes.

Peter Schravemade (17:58) this next story is out of reware, and I think

WA's application rules and the race of income

Kasey McDonald (18:00) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (18:00) we've seen this in just about every location. I I there's one part of me that's in favor of of this kind of thing happening, and there's another part of me that is I'm just sick and tired. And I I've said this addendum this week. I've said this, you know, over and over again. I'm sick and tired of governments legislating when they don't actually understand the property market at all. Like it's just and we're seeing that in every aspect of society. Like at the moment, we're seeing that in the credit card charges. The ATO has admitted that it underestimated or didn't understand the fact that businesses actually bankroll a lot of their cash flow from a credit card. And that that has led to, you know, this massive backlash against the ATA. We we see that every

Kasey McDonald (18:42) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (18:42) day in the property industry. We've got these these government regulators that are stepping in going, I know how to fix the problem, not actually engaging with the industry and understanding it. So another example, we were pres actually outgoing president Suzanne Brown. I think I think she's outgoing because we announced Rob Mandanici recently.

Kasey McDonald (18:56) Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (19:01) She's gone public warning that incoming Western Australia rental application privacy regulations will strip private Property managers cr of critical vetting visibility. under the prescribed standard application rules, PM and lessors it'll be barred from asking pro prospective tenants about previous legal tribunal action. I can't understand that with a less or because that's important. Bond claim history, credit history, or dependence. Now, we've seen this happen in New South Wales and Victoria. I think we've seen it happen here. Have we? Quit we've have we seen it in Queensland? I I don't I don't know. I don't think it's as as extreme, but I'll do

Kasey McDonald (19:35) Not not as extreme in Queensland, yeah. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (19:38) Yeah, I'll I'll defer to you on that. But what we do know in New South Wales and Victoria, it is it is greatly diminished a property manager's ability to understand who is the best fit for that property. And now it tends to be a race of income in New South Wales and Victoria. That's the only thing that they really have to decide on. Now, I I think I I think these things are poorly thought through. The single application form, I have zero problem with that, but it needs to be better. It needs to be able to allow the landlord to still vet in a way that is fair and reasonable to an owner renting

Kasey McDonald (20:16) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (20:17) out a property. What are your thoughts?

Kasey McDonald (20:19) Totally agree because if we're unable to look or check from past history, just because their income might be high, it doesn't mean that they're the most suitable in terms of how much they look after that property, right? you can have lower income earners you know who treat the home spotless as all of you know those things that we obviously take into consideration. and sometimes those that might ha earn more money may not actually look after the home. So I think, you know, by kind of stripping that out, the really only thing that now we've got to look for is what they're earning. And is that is that the true judgment like that we want to be making to assess whether or not they are the most suitable? Yes, we're looking at it to ensure affordability piece. that's one, that's only one piece I think, in terms of when we're searching for the best and most suitable rel renter. for any property. So I think it's really stripping away and locking us out of making sure we actually are finding the best tenant.

Peter Schravemade (21:24) Yeah, no doubt in my mind. A hundred percent correct. I don't I don't think we need to harp on this because we've

Kasey McDonald (21:29) No.

Peter Schravemade (21:29) already we've already spoken about this on New South Wales and Victoria. And it just look, the whole the whole thing is I the ide the concept is correct. The the government's execution is consistently poor in every state because they are not listening and they're not consulting with the industry. And that just

Kasey McDonald (21:44) Mm-hmm. Correct.

Peter Schravemade (21:47) it's that it it almost appears as though again they're trying to win votes on doing this and it it could be a lot better if they just listen to very minor points.

Kasey McDonald (21:57) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (21:57) and I I actually I actually suspect one of the reasons for that is is the you know when I look at how the the real estate institutes operate with their Office of Fair fair trading or their, you know, consumer affairs in Victoria, I think a lot of it has to do with the political appetite to listen to the industry. So, you know, in New South Wales we've got this d dysfunctional arrangement where the housing minister there just doesn't listen to the Office of Fair Trading. all the way through to I think Queensland have a fairly healthy relationship at the moment,

Kasey McDonald (22:29) Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (22:31) but rewind a year under the previous government and it was catastrophic. I think there was not a day that the REIQ weren't hammering the Office of Fair Trading here in Queensland about changes. So it appears to be an appetite government to government. And I'm not, again, not red, blue, orange, whichever one you're voting. I'm not saying which one to go for. It just appears to be worse where where the government is not listening to the industry. And I think that flows through to everything, like property investment decisions and whatever else. As soon as the government stops engaging, the the tax changes that have come through, no engagement with the industry. So yeah, off my high horse. Let's move on.

Kasey McDonald (23:08) Yep.

Airbnb's checkout chore ban: why Peter quit the platform

Peter Schravemade (23:12) two point two point three or the third story on and this this this one. Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (23:14) Yeah. I was reading this and actually having a little gig like I was having a little giggle like kind of about this one, but yeah. talk us through it.

Peter Schravemade (23:23) Were you aware of this? Cause I've seen this quite a bit. I know we've got a dear friend, a mutual friend, Hayley Mitchell. I know

Kasey McDonald (23:29) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (23:29) she does a lot of short-term rentals. And I'm pretty sure Darren Hunter out of who does he work with again? Those those blokes, what are they called? It's buy growth. They

Kasey McDonald (23:38) Yes.

Peter Schravemade (23:38) Darren Hunter quite does quite a bit of this. But this is in the short term letting, you know, I I it's a pet peeve of mine. It it is one of the reasons why I don't go through Airbnb as a as an average short term rental

Kasey McDonald (23:52) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (23:54) tenant, I guess you would call me, or a a short term rental renter. Like you know how much travel I do a

Kasey McDonald (24:00) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (24:00) year, almost a surplus 200 days a year. And I've I've I've completely banned Airbnb. And there's a lot of reasons for that. I think the number one is that hosts have the ability to pull out on on what is a confirmed a a confirmed stay

Kasey McDonald (24:17) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (24:18) right up until a date. And and a lot of that was happening to me. So I was booking, you know, a four-night stay for something that was there at bargain basement rates because the host hadn't bothered to put it up. It would come close to that date, they would look at what they could put the rent up for and they would then re remove me and say it's no longer on the market. And then lo and behold, it would be up again in two days at double the double the rate. So I just I had no certainty around that and I had to ditch it. But another one of my pet for peeves were these. cleaning fees that came in

Kasey McDonald (24:51) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (24:52) on the back end of it. So, you know, you're you're paying, and by the way, I I very rarely paid $400 a night, but this is the example. There's a $400 a night plus a $250 cleaning fee for a, you know, a two-night stay, a $250 cleaning fee. And then guests would get handed a laminated 12-point housework checkout list before, you know, it is a double standard. Either you're paying a cleaning fee and they're cleaning it or you're doing the cleaning yourself and you don't have to get that two hundred and fifty dollar fee. But I can understand the frustration for users, but Airbnb, short term rental stays are in open revolt about this. It's

Kasey McDonald (25:29) Mm. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (25:31) in every single forum that's out there. they're departing Airbnb like never before. And maybe this is a bit of a kick up the pants to

Kasey McDonald (25:38) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (25:38) the long term rental stays. I I certainly gave one to the conferences that I was speaking to this year that they should be out trying to win over short term stay landlords because a lot of them are just over it now. what are your thoughts? Do you understand this this one? H did you see it coming? I mean

Kasey: the BDM opportunity in fed-up short-stay owners

Kasey McDonald (25:55) Yeah, look, I we do use the Airbnb platform. and I haven't had the experience of them, you know, kind of pulling out, you know, in those c you know, kind of close to the time where they kind of go, Well, I can get a little bit more for this as a part of the stay. But I do agree that now is a great opportunity for any of our audience listening who are BDMs or in that, you know, property management space. And principles as well now to be thinking, you know, while obviously the sales market is softened, how else can we be looking to grow our rental portfolio? And now would be a great time to start to consider being an attraction to those short s short term state owners to getting them back into the more permanent residential pool. you know, vacancies are are tighter and potentially that's a strategy that we need to start to think about. How how do we get or how do we make the permanent residential pool? more attractive for those that have been in that short stay space for a really, really long time. I think I saw in the article there was one host who's been a super host for like ten years. They've got over eleven hundred reviews and a c un just under a five star rating, threatened to pull their entire listing because of this kind of, you know, dishwashing rule ban that's coming in where the guests will can't now, you can't ask them to wash their own dishes as a part of this process. So I think potentially now there's a great opportunity in market, but just also remember what you do in short term versus what's required under permanent is very different. So if it does become a thought process and a consideration to be a growth strategy, you will need to re educate. you're going to need to re educate around bare, wear and tear, what you need to do to have those properties rented to minimum standards from a permanent perspective. So it's not to kind of put a put a put a negative spin on what could actually be a really positive consideration. But you real need to have a really good strategy in place. But I think it might be a really great one for those to consider now how they can grow their rent role. Here's a great opportunity.

Peter Schravemade (28:07) Yeah, and by the by the way, there are ways around this. I I I think most of our listeners will be unaware that there are different levels of of short term rental stay

Kasey McDonald (28:14) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (28:15) accommodation. So I don't not stay in short term rentals anymore. Quite often it it is beneficial to me, especially when my family is travelling. I I don't, you know, want my

Kasey McDonald (28:24) Well, that's why we use it, right? Like how do I get a hotel room that's gonna fit three teenage girls in and

Peter Schravemade (28:28) Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (28:29) a and two adults? Like it's pretty hard. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (28:32) Yeah, so here's a travel hack for you. Like I I I go with only one franchise. I you will know this. You know, I

Kasey McDonald (28:37) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (28:39) I would call myself a Marriott man where I I cho if I choose to stay in the only in only one hotel, I get perks with that if you know the longer you stay. Some of those they range from free breakfast to upgraded, whatever, whatever. I don't necessarily care about them anymore, Kasey, because I've got to do the travel, but they do add up. Like, you know, if I stay in one hotel, those perks add up. And now Marriott Bonvoy, which is the rewards program, has a Marriott Homes and Villas division, which is exactly like Airbnb. And it removes those cleaning costs from it. It it just has this rack rate. All of the rooms that are approved to be on there are to a similar standard to a Marriott Hotel room. So, you know, that removes things like The the bathroom is in poor condition. It doesn't

Kasey McDonald (29:28) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (29:28) have automated entry and things like that. Things that you take for granted when you're staying at a hotel, you know, 24 hour check-in, things like you have to have that as a standard. It removes cleaning, it removes all of the things that Airbnb are actually talking about. So I I I think Airbnb are trying to raise all of their short term rentals to that standard. And

Kasey McDonald (29:47) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (29:48) by the way, under that Marriott one, once you've booked it, they can't pull out. And so,

Kasey McDonald (29:53) Interesting. Hmm.

Peter Schravemade (29:54) You know, for me, for me it has been life changing. I

Kasey McDonald (29:56) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (29:57) you know, when I've obviously my my kids are a bit older than yours in the in the area of 17, 19, and 21. That you that a good 10 years or or just under older than than most of yours. Obviously I don't want to be staying in the same room and they don't want to be staying

Kasey McDonald (30:12) Ha.

Peter Schravemade (30:12) in the same room as me. So yeah, you you know them. So there are there are definite ways around that. And I think they're actually conditioning the market to return to you you know some st some standard. I I I actually think they've poorly advertised it and they should be calling it minimum standards. And by the way, if you're an Airbnb, you're sh short-term rental host out there and you've got something, you know, for $400 and dollars a night, just build a build a cleaning fee into it so that what is advertised is what you're actually being charged for. There's

Kasey McDonald (30:44) Yeah. Correct.

Peter Schravemade (30:45) nothing worse than getting to check out and realizing that it's more extent expensive than staying at a hotel anyway. And that was another bugbear of mine with Airbnb.

Kasey McDonald (30:53) Yeah, I think you've nailed it there, in terms of the minimum ascendance. I think maybe they've just kind of broadcasted this and gone to market and made this change and just maybe use some of the wrong language, which, you know, can always happen, right? And that's probably as simply as it is,

Peter Schravemade (31:02) Yep. They didn't like the line. Yep.

Kasey McDonald (31:06) and there are other ways in which they can be thinking about it. But, you know, to my point as well, you know, for those out there who are looking to grow their rent role, this might be a great time to kind of go to that space and see whether or not you can be an attraction to some of those owners and and convince them to get into the resi pool. Pem more permanently. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (31:24) Yeah, and there's there's more more on it than that before we just move into the next one. A Airbnb's

Kasey McDonald (31:28) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (31:29) also added an AI policy

Kasey McDonald (31:31) Okay.

Peter Schravemade (31:31) for refunds and exchanges. And it's hugely unpopular at the moment, where it's going to be decided by AI, not AI, not a human, as to whether they get a refund or not. And that AI, I believe, in the instances according to the forums, don't quote me on this, I haven't properly researched it, but it is heavily defaulting to the to the consumer.

Kasey McDonald (31:52) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (31:52) So there are some ironclad examples of where five star users who have never had issues before are getting full refunds against it and and the people using Airbnb are well aware of it and there are a few of them rotting the system. So yep, to your point,

Kasey McDonald (32:05) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (32:06) get get amongst it. There's never been a better time to hammer a few short term

Kasey McDonald (32:08) Yep. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (32:10) rental users because they might be considering going back to the long term rental pool in an area where property management and churn is a big problem. Shall we move on? So let's go to the sales desk

The sales desk: Real's US$880 million RE/MAX takeover

Kasey McDonald (32:20) Yes, absolutely. Yes.

Peter Schravemade (32:22) things affecting salespersons this month. And this one's one that was sent to me actually by by well I I I won't say their name, but

Kasey McDonald (32:30) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (32:31) they they're a person who receives a lot of stories regarding I guess financial holdings. And this one is a breakdown of the Real-RE/MAX merger, which you know, this is effectively an American.

Kasey McDonald (32:42) Okay. That's only just been recently new, right? Like as in this is this year, that merger where

Peter Schravemade (32:49) Yep.

Kasey McDonald (32:49) I think we spoke about in one of the earlier episodes. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (32:52) Yeah, it it is. And one of the things I raised back then was the cultural differences between who I know Real users to be and who

Kasey McDonald (33:01) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (33:02) I know RE/MAX users to be. Now RE/MAX is is one of the more has been one of the more dominant brands in the world for a sustained period of time. Like there was a there was a time where can get this sixty percent of Canadian real estate professionals were RE/MAX. That's how dominant they were in that market.

Kasey McDonald (33:18) Wow. Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (33:21) And then You know, they they were quite dominant in America and they they are probably one of the larger global brands behind the conglomerate that now is Compass and has all of these. And what what I quizzed last time is how you maintain culture between RE/MAX who which who are had been up until this year, and it'll be interesting to watch, consistently named in top franchises under things like McDonald's and Google and for employee satisfaction. That that that's a big A big tick of approval. Like if you're ever wondering what franchise to go to, well, the American RE/MAX franchise was always labeled as this. But this is an interesting one where a financier is sent through documentation really

Kasey McDonald (34:06) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (34:07) questioning that merger. so following the close of Real Brokerage, $880 million acquisition of RE/MAX, investor analysis this week highlighted the stark. economics of the 180,000 agent group across 120 countries. And j just as RE/MAX Australia business owners gathered on the Gold Coast on the 29th of October for their leadership summit. So that's going on now, in in Tamir Poleg, who is the CEO of Real, it grew its agent count by ninefold in under five years from 3,850 agents to 35,000 in June 2026.

Kasey McDonald (34:47) Wow.

Peter Schravemade (34:48) Which is a a large growth, but we've seen it before. We saw eXp

Kasey McDonald (34:49) Mm. Yeah, Facebook.

Peter Schravemade (34:52) in America do a s a similar thing, I think even faster. So they did that though during the US turnover slump, growing revenue from 428 million to 2.24 billion with the 77 million dollar EBITDA, 80 million dollar operating cash flow. Pretty those good, those are good numbers. Real runs zero physical offices via its proprietary reZEN software, which is interesting.

Kasey McDonald (35:17) Uh-huh.

Peter Schravemade (35:18) And an AI concierge giving agents an 85/15 commission split capped at twelve thousand a year. A lot of numbers in there. I'm gonna put them

Kasey McDonald (35:25) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (35:26) on the website so you can go and look at it. So after a five-tier revenue share, it's like 60% of real share for recruiting pro productive agents and equity awards operating 85 three agents per HQ employee with operating costs down to four point four percent of revenue. So what is all what does all of that mean? Real and RE/MAX's share

Kasey McDonald (35:50) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (35:50) growth have have effectively tanked. And so the elephant in the room, I suppose, at the moment, doesn't have a lot to do with our our Australian franchises here. Because as long as I've known them, they have operated independently. And indeed,

Kasey McDonald (36:07) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (36:09) the managing director, Joel Davoren, has come out and assured local principles it's business as usual and the brands will operate separately while sharing Real's AI tech. You know, I'm tipping that it'd be very unusual for RE/MAX Austral RE/MAX Australia has never shared, well, I d I don't remember for as long as I know, you know, personally speaking, we had a global deal at BoxBrownie with RE/MAX America that was never agreed, you know, RE/MAX Australia re flat out refused to share that technology with its users because we wouldn't pay it money separately to RE/MAX USA. And that's that, right? They they could you know they can defend that i in their own way. I guess what I'm saying is they have or always operated independently and I know that firsthand. But the qu the real question is, how do you run a traditional brick and mortar franchise where print principals pay lease overheads and clip of thirty percent of an agent's GCI inside the exact same company whose flagship model tells Agents, only two percent of clients care about agency brand versus 89 of personal relationships. And you try and keep, you know, a cap of twelve thousand and get paid to shares to recruit your mates. It's article highlighting or this this document highlighted the gross difference between the operating structure of Real and RE/MAX. And and it it it there's there's evidence here. So that the shareholders aren't backing it. The shareholder tug of war has. It $24 $24 a share down to 15. So that's a I would call that tanking. Real bought RE/MAX at the bottom of a rate cycle, mostly in scrip, plus five hundred and fifty million dollars of debt, and has authorized a massive buyback. So if the share price stays depressed at $15 while rates stay high, those

Kasey McDonald (38:03) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (38:04) equity-based recruitment incentives lose their shine and integrating old school franchise principles with cloud native revenue share request. recruiters is ultimately the culture test. But I think the most revealing number in the investor note is that brokerage commissions only carry eight percent gross margin for real. Now, obviously you just to be really clear, I'm talking about this from a North American sense.

Kasey McDonald (38:27) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (38:28) It doesn't really have a lot of impact on the Australian. Definitely not having a go at our mates at RE/MAX here or Joel and and the way he operates RE/MAX Australia here. I fully defend the w you know that. It's just super interesting where there's such a cultural divide between who is acquiring such a big franchise and then what will become of that. this this particular article that was emailed to me I think is well written. It's highlighting already divides in the shares and in the way that the companies operate. And so, you know, I I g I guess I've I've got Yeah, I've I don't know if you've got a take on this. it's I don't know that I have a take on it. I think it is just not looking good from a from a perspective of we've had this national brand or international brand for a long time and I am concerned about what becomes of that.

Kasey McDonald (39:27) Mm. Yeah, yeah, I don't I guess have a view on it either way. I think something though that I've learnt with, you know, our time working in America and you know, we've got lots of friends over there and and more importantly have done that kind of c consulting piece is that we understand that real estate in America versus how we do real estate in Australia is is obviously very different, but also the technology platforms over there as well. So, you know, I think that's probably something here that I'm probably interested to kind of watch and learn what evolves of this is, you know, you mentioned before about their reZEN software and how in which that's used and

Peter Schravemade (40:05) Mm.

Kasey McDonald (40:06) what and what's kind of included in that. you know, i is there potentially a play here that real are going to ensure that all RE/MAX officers then are using this software and what would then that mean. Is it Australia versed? You know, would it be ready for the Australian market if it was something they also imposed on on the team over here to do? So yeah, I I'm I'm quite interested to kind of see where this goes, but I probably am thinking about it more on that that kind of tech play. Is that why they've done this? and then they're seeing that there's an opportunity for their technology to be more widely used? I don't know.

Agency software, MCP and the missing AI policy

Peter Schravemade (40:46) Yeah, I look and and on that, my personal feelings are the the software that agencies have embedded is about to change irrevoc

Kasey McDonald (40:53) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (40:54) irrevocably in the in the next year. you know, agencies who have the traditional one sign in or they have a dashboard, that's going to be particularly difficult to maintain with MCP connectors and and and and AI going in the direction it is. And so reZEN or no reZEN, you know, whether you've got people using it or not. you're gonna see big changes in that in that area. I don't think many of the major franchises are gonna keep up with the changes that the LLMs are bringing in. So I don't know if if that's even going to be a competitive advantage moving forward anyway. I think if you're a major franchise, like 50 offices or more or 30 offices or more, you really need to be looking now at what you're doing. Principles are getting more and more concerned about the fact that their their sales agents are using a a hodgepodge of AI plus connectors to do their business

Kasey McDonald (41:48) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (41:48) and they have no real control. A lot of them don't have any AI policies in place that that govern the way that their salespersons use them and and it's really being reactive. So you know, big issue coming out of that story, I suppose. But let's move on.

Kasey McDonald (42:02) Mm-hmm. Yes.

Peter Schravemade (42:04) Let's go to a New Zealand our good friend Leanne Pilkington

Leanne Pilkington, Sam Dalby and the sick vendor who can't drop his price

Kasey McDonald (42:09) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (42:10) put an article in front of me. Well, she didn't. It popped up in my Instagram

Kasey McDonald (42:13) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (42:14) feed, but because I follow her quite closely, she's come out and smashed the New South Wales Office of Fair Trading. I I guess it's on a price and compliance front, across both medium major eastern states. So Leanne went public this week in both REB and live on socials with Laing+Simmons Hawkesbury Bella Vista. Principal Sam Dalby, who's actually a good mate of mine,

Kasey McDonald (42:38) Mm-hmm. Yes.

Peter Schravemade (42:40) to expose a really heartbreaking flaw in New South Wales proposed underquoting reform. So, under the rules, once a vendor rejects a written offer on a price, so let's say you have a property for sale at a million dollars, somebody sends in a an offer of let's go 880, you reject that figure.

Kasey McDonald (43:00) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (43:01) the agent is legally prohibited from advertising the property below that. rejected figure. So Sam Dalby shared a real-world case to one of his New South Wales vendors who rejected an early first offer when the campaign kicked off. And shortly after that, the vendor found out he was very ill, very, very ill, therefore drastically changing his motivation for selling and and making an immediate sale critical. But yet he he because he'd rejected that earlier offer, he was now legally trapped and barred from lowering his asking price below that initial figure. Now I don't know about you.

Kasey McDonald (43:35) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (43:37) we've just spoken about people legislating who don't understand

Kasey McDonald (43:41) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (43:42) how the how the sales process works. They don't understand the nature of vendors. It's all these ridiculous real estate agents who are stuffing it up for everyone. But that's not the case. People have to transact on a daily basis. They're

Kasey McDonald (43:53) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (43:54) moving, they're getting married, they're getting divorced. You know, there are some separations that are particularly anxious. We looked at a lot of domestic violence, you know, in in the in the previous one and and then there's births, you know, deaths and marriages that happen. And there are so many motivations and it's just now getting beyond a joke. and we're two weeks into Victoria's mandatory seven day published reserve price law.

Kasey McDonald (44:16) Yeah, mhm, mhm.

Peter Schravemade (44:19) so this is happening in two at least at least two states. So you what what are you what are your thoughts?

Kasey McDonald (44:25) Yeah, I actually like I agree and I think that now, and I think Sam even covered this and made that statement through that video, is that he's now gonna have to say that, you know, understand that if you reject this and it's in writing, then this these circumstances happen, then this is a position it's gonna put you in. So I think you know, we've got governments not understanding how much we you know, the process actually plays out, but more importantly, they now d making the decision for you. Like it's your home, it's not theirs. So whatever you choose to actually sell your home for, or what you'd like to potentially get, depending on your circumstances, because in this situation, this person might not have thought at that they didn't know at that time, right, they were ill. And so they've gone, well hang on, maybe that's not kind of the offer that I'm thinking or the price point is where I was hoping to achieve. So I'm gonna reject that and let's kind of negotiate again and

Peter Schravemade (45:18) Mm.

Kasey McDonald (45:18) see what else is out there in the market. Right. Which is a obviously then what's happened, to then say, now sorry, you can't now sell your home because you're now needing to utilise that for your s treatment, for your health. So you've got the government, somebody in government who's now saying you're not allowed to make a choice within your own property and something that you own and you've been paying a mortgage for for many, many years. So that's a piece that probably quite upsets me about this is that random stranger people can now tell me what I need to do. with any with my home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With my asset. Like it's we're

Peter Schravemade (45:52) Yeah. With with your asset, yeah, and there seem to be so many.

Kasey McDonald (45:56) paying a mortgage, we're paying the interest rates, we're you know, all of these things, right? For a long time. And it's there to help us build wealth and you know, for future generations and

Peter Schravemade (46:04) Allegedly.

Kasey McDonald (46:05) allegedly. Yeah, you know, and for our future generations and to help, you know, set our children up and then their children but more importantly, what am I gonna retire on? You know, am I gonna have to work 'til I'm ninety now? Like do you yeah.

First right of refusal and the stony-silence loophole

Peter Schravemade (46:19) There are but there are so many better ways to do this. Like, you know,

Kasey McDonald (46:22) a hundred percent.

Peter Schravemade (46:23) how how about you go back to the person who made the offer and they may have moved on. I acknowledge that, but

Kasey McDonald (46:27) Yeah. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (46:29) they get first right of refusal at that the new price. Like,

Kasey McDonald (46:31) Yeah correct.

Peter Schravemade (46:33) why would that why would that not be part of it if they've been rejected? And then that way they they can reconsider.

Kasey McDonald (46:38) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (46:40) there there are a thousand ways they that they could do this better. They're just n they're not thinking. And

Kasey McDonald (46:44) No.

Peter Schravemade (46:44) and probably you know, a another one that I'd I'd sort of throw out there is that A lot of the real estate agents that I'm speaking to are just they're they're advocating stony silence when they rather than a rejection.

Kasey McDonald (46:57) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (46:57) the vendors are considering your offer.

Kasey McDonald (46:59) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (47:00) Like may maybe it forces a an untenable scenario where you make an offer and you don't get a response back from the vendor. The

Kasey McDonald (47:09) Uh-huh.

Peter Schravemade (47:10) vendor is the vendors are considering your offer and you leave that open the whole way through the sales process. Can you imagine how frustrating that would be?

Kasey McDonald (47:17) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (47:17) Like that for for somebody trying to buy a purchase of

Kasey McDonald (47:19) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (47:20) of a house, is there a loophole that allows you to just sit there and go, We're still considering? You know, cause we can't say no because we don't know what's happening next. If we say no, we can never accept an offer that's under that, should that happen. So I'm really sorry. I haven't got a response from the vendor. I mean,

Kasey McDonald (47:36) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (47:37) what what how tragic would that be for first home buyers now? So I like I don't I don't know. I

Kasey McDonald (47:42) Yeah, but also that's like I feel like that's really kind of unethical and and unmoral of us as humans, right? To that to kind of have to it right, to sit

Peter Schravemade (47:47) It it is, it is.

Kasey McDonald (47:49) back. You know, I don't know how comfortable I would be as a salesperson. No. I like yeah, I just don't know. And look

Peter Schravemade (47:53) I wouldn't feel comfortable at all. It does you you might you might have you might have offers on 20 properties and all

Kasey McDonald (47:59) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (47:59) of them are and then tomorrow those offers could be signed and accepted.

Kasey McDonald (48:05) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (48:06) You know? Like imagine if you go into one and they say we're still con considering it. Three weeks later, you look at another, you make an offer on that, they're still considering that. Two weeks later,

Kasey McDonald (48:14) You're doing it? Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (48:16) you make an offer on a third property because you're just desperate to get a house. The third and the second and the first get all accepted in the same day. You know, like what are we doing? It's

Kasey McDonald (48:25) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (48:26) just a basic understanding of how the property market works and how how houses are are transacted. They're just not getting it. And

Kasey McDonald (48:34) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (48:35) we're seeing a lot of that in Victoria at the moment with the zero tolerance policy between New South Wales locking sick vendors into old prices in Victoria, handing out ten thousand dollar fines for admin typos under the new seven day reserve re regime.

Kasey McDonald (48:49) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (48:50) obviously, you know, trying to win votes down there. So it's just a shocking article. shall we move on? Here,

Kasey McDonald (48:54) Yeah. Yes.

AI contract review tools with no legal PI cover

Peter Schravemade (48:56) this is an interesting one from me because it probably affects me as as a as somebody who runs around and and talks to people about AI. Now, very, very upfront here. I never, you know, recommend people do this without revision, but there are definitely some I think some people in the AI realm who are running around, and this is an article by Richard Bootle sounding the alarm on the glowing growing trend of a sales agents

Kasey McDonald (49:28) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (49:29) and buyers agents rem recommending consumer facing AI contract review tools to help buyers quickly summarize and interpret contracts of sales, special conditions and strata reports before bidding. because the vast majority of these standalone Prop Tech AI tools are not operated by licensed law firms. They're technically crossing the line into unqualified legal practice

Kasey McDonald (49:52) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (49:53) and critically they carry zero legal professional indemnity insurance. Now, I never have ever, ever recommended that somebody use an AI contract review tool as a definitive piece. And I I don't think I I don't think I ever will. Be recommending that, you know, you need a lawyer to review a legal document. Things like a first pass to understand it.

Kasey McDonald (50:23) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (50:23) That, you know, personal understanding, that's fine. But you you should seek legal advice on any kind of legal document you sign. You know, that just seems common sense to me. But there are there are those out there. I have seen them on social media and generally. They have fairly large Instagram and TikTok followings who are

Kasey McDonald (50:44) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (50:44) s suggesting that there are tools out there that might be shortcutting and quicker for what is there. And I think Richard Bootle has a very good

Kasey McDonald (50:55) Yes.

Peter Schravemade (50:55) point here where where I I don't think we've seen court action yet, but I would hate to be the person who is the first one exposed to this kind of

Kasey McDonald (51:03) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (51:04) risk of recommending legal advice to those out there who who should be seeking. proper legal advice, but

Kasey McDonald (51:11) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (51:12) getting it from an AI.

Kasey McDonald (51:13) Yeah, I think one of the key points, you know, probably to draw out of this is the PI insurance policy piece. you know, and I think he does a statement here of guess who whose policy the buyer's litigation lawyer is gonna come after and it's gonna be the agent who actually recommends this. So, you know,

Peter Schravemade (51:31) Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (51:31) do we, you know, then as a sales agent, you know, depending on whether or not you're operating under a full licensee or a subcontractor, you know, running your own business as an example, there's a, you know, potential indemnity claim here that could happen that you're actually advising and recommending that they go and use AI to do what would be a practice of a l of a lawyer or or qual qualified legal representative. So yeah, and I think it's it's hard, right? to add a bit of a you know PM spin to this too very quickly is, you know, unfortunately property managers are also utilising you know chatbots and utilizing you know the AI open chat GPTs as an example, where they're kind of drafting annexures, they're also inputting,

Peter Schravemade (52:21) Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (52:22) you know, language into emails, trying to interpret tribunal notes and stuff like that as well. And I just think, you know, that's kind of fraught with danger in itself. More importantly, what's actually been covered across the First National Conference and here in New Zealand. is around the AI policies in the business and you mentioned it earlier in the show. it's that ever no one's got them. Some do, some don't, and there and it nothing is clear and the boundaries aren't clear in there. So again, that's just

Peter Schravemade (52:49) Mm. Mm.

Kasey McDonald (52:50) something to look for here for business owners listening in today and that this is going to come back and affect you and your business and what potentially you might have to pay out should any of this actually occur.

Peter Schravemade (53:04) Yep. Yep. I yeah, I don't I think just a general rule of thumb, don't hand out legal advice if you're an agent because you're not a lawyer. You know, I mean I I mean that could summarize it. yeah, you could

Kasey McDonald (53:08) Mm. Correct, right? Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Or don't guide them to say go and check it in AI. Like that's not also, you know, yeah.

Peter Schravemade (53:18) you can still you can even have a panel of of solicitors who you you know you're not affiliated to and you're not getting a kickback that

Kasey McDonald (53:24) Yeah. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (53:26) says here are a bunch of ones that we we we have as a courtesy to our client. Go and

Kasey McDonald (53:30) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (53:30) go and choose from the list we know that they're they're experts in this area. And that that's the that's where I'd leave it. I wouldn't

Kasey McDonald (53:35) Yeah, definitely. Mm-hmm.

Three in four Brisbane auctions fail

Peter Schravemade (53:37) be handing out anything. he the three interconnected stories are all around what happens when a 4.6% cash rate can collides with ego and leverage. There's one of them in here that I found particularly funny. So well not this first one. So to be clear, poorly

Kasey McDonald (53:53) Ha ha ha ha.

Peter Schravemade (53:55) inserted poorly inserted giggle. But there's one in here that I did have a chuckle at, but not the first one. There's a Brisbane and Gold Coast auction

Kasey McDonald (54:02) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (54:03) wipeout, they're calling it. Apollo auctions released data yesterday that said that three in every four. Brisbane and Gold Coast auctions failed to sell under the hammer. Now,

Kasey McDonald (54:12) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (54:13) as bad as that sounds, it's not at fifty percent not and s and and higher.

Kasey McDonald (54:16) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (54:17) I think I've seen a a fifty-five, fifty-six percent year on year from Sydney and Melbourne at the moment. So in in in re in retrospect. It's rising, and that's that's news at a at about a quarter. But it's not as bad as down south. It's just setting in, I think, of that four point six percent cash rate. but the this and the second story is the one that I'm

Kasey McDonald (54:40) Yeah.

The banker's email brag and the $171 strata excuse

Peter Schravemade (54:41) giggling at. So this is a Sydney, a former senior banker executive tried to terminate a 7.5 million dollar luxury apartment contract, claiming in court that a $170 one. $171 per week increase in strata levies caused him severe financial hardship and materially prejud prejudiced the contract. The judge threw out his bid and

Kasey McDonald (55:04) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (55:04) ordered him to settle plus pay penalty interest after the vendors' lawyers tendered the banker's own private email bragging about his vast personal wealth.

Kasey McDonald (55:13) Mm. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (55:15) So yeah, it does it does seem kind of rich, especially when you've

Kasey McDonald (55:17) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (55:18) done that. I have had many a long lunch with the banker over my

Kasey McDonald (55:22) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (55:23) career. especially financiers who are, you know, who are heavy in the real estate industry. And I've got to say, you know, there they there is a tendency for them to speak about their personal wealth on, let's say, the the other side. In a way, look, this is a real estate agent and I've heard real estate agents do it and they've flashed their you know, their their watches and their cars and their designer suits in front of people. So, you know, might be pot cooling the kettle black here, but it's gotta say, you know, what a way to come back and bite him, where

Kasey McDonald (55:56) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (55:57) it's a brag that has bought his seven point five million dollar lawsuit down. Well, that's not the cost of it, but it he's

Kasey McDonald (56:04) Yeah.

Six half-built Brighton homes and the 25-lot subdivision that crashed

Peter Schravemade (56:05) been ordered to settle. we also have receivership. So Melbourne's Bay

Kasey McDonald (56:09) Yes.

Peter Schravemade (56:10) Bayside Prestige Belt. Receivers stepped in on Sunday to seize six half built luxury homes in Brighton worth nine million after the developer collapsed mid-project. We've seen a bucket load of these, these big ones. That's a medium sized one, I would suggest. But we've seen we've seen a ton of them, right, Kasey. I just

Kasey McDonald (56:27) Yeah, definitely.

Peter Schravemade (56:29) I th I think receivers taking over six unfinished nine million homes in Brighton proves why buyers are terrified of of the plan. And and a couple of episodes ago, I bought, I think it was A subdivision of 25 that had 23 contracts,

Kasey McDonald (56:45) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (56:46) none of which were unconditional, and they all crashed, meaning

Kasey McDonald (56:48) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (56:49) that there are now zero contracts on that. It was it was a less than a month after the budget. They all crashed and they that I think only to date, only two have hit the hit hit contract status again at the

Kasey McDonald (57:03) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (57:03) same prices from like six months ago. So it's not a fun time to be

Kasey McDonald (57:08) No.

Peter Schravemade (57:08) in development land, I wouldn't think.

Kasey McDonald (57:10) Not at all.

Peter Schravemade (57:10) Your thoughts on any or all of that?

Kasey McDonald (57:13) well look, you know, maybe not through the administration piece, but I I think we're starting to see some of the buildings stall in terms of those projects stalling in terms of getting to the finish line. But there's some larger ones coming out of Queensland that they're now worried will certainly not be ready. and we're talking obviously but they were getting them ready for the Olympics, right? So 2032. And they're they're they're kind of anticipating that we're not going to get them done. So that's concerning in itself and I think it's you know, maybe some of those will end up as well through this kind of administration process, which is really sad to see for our construction industry.

Peter Schravemade (57:54) Yeah. Yep. Agreed. next story

Kasey McDonald (57:58) Yes.

Greg Bell's licence cancelled after 49 years

Peter Schravemade (57:59) is is a bit of a I think it's a bit of a sad story if I'm honest.

Kasey McDonald (58:01) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (58:02) I'm not I'm not taking any heart out of this. I I don't celebrate when you know an operator in our industry has negative adverse effects.

Kasey McDonald (58:11) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (58:13) I don't know the full story, and you and I probably won't, but the breaking story is Gold Coast real estate icon Greg Bell. and I think he this guy's gonna be known to many people.

Kasey McDonald (58:23) Yes.

Peter Schravemade (58:23) Because he's been in the industry for five decades. he served

Kasey McDonald (58:25) Yeah, a really long time.

Peter Schravemade (58:27) alongside his brother Andrew Bell as the co-principal in building the powerhouse, Ray White Surfers Paradise Group, before focusing on commercial property, has had his real estate license formally cancelled following personal insolven insolvency. So the Office of Fair Trading investigation revealed that Bell had failed to notify the regulator of a bankruptcy as required by law and unfought unlawfully. retained his real estate credentials for more than a month within the breach, with the breach only coming to light after a third party tipped off alerted authorities. Speaking to REB, Andrew Bell defended the brothers' 49-year legacy, noting he has trained some of the top performing agents in the country. So like just

Kasey McDonald (59:09) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (59:10) a bit of background here. When Queensland dipped out of the REIA, which I'm not sure if the listeners understand, but the Real Estate Institute of Australia, it only has you know, potentially all of the states and territories as members and they generally pay a fee to be a part of that.

Kasey McDonald (59:27) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (59:27) And there was a period there where Queensland said, I d I don't think we're getting our value out of it. And so they pulled out. Andrew Bell became the Queensland representative. Andrew not being the one that's bankrupt, the brother

Kasey McDonald (59:38) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (59:39) of him, he became the the Queensland representative for the REIA during somewhere during that period. I don't think that was a popular move here in Queensland. because we had a cult following for Antonia Mercorella, who was the CEO of the REIQ. It was it was a it was a bit of an interesting move from them. but those those two that aside it doesn't really have anything to do with this but I guess I'm I'm just building the case for exactly how how well known the bells are known here in Queensland, like they've

Kasey McDonald (1:00:10) Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:00:12) been stalwart's in the industry. I've met both of these guys and I've never had a reason to doubt their character. and certainly the bankruptcy seems to be a commercial deal gone wrong. you know, and whose fault that is, I'm not, I'm not creating any aspersions. I'm actually, you know, I've I feel bad that we've lost industry stalwart. Yes, understand rules are rules and that needs to happen. I'm also a little bit peeved at this tip off.

Kasey McDonald (1:00:43) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:00:43) Like Who's who's sitting there celebrating this? I mean, yes, he probably shouldn't be operating. He's gone bankrupt. and that's one of the requirements. It needs to be a fair and reasonable person. We've heard about this. I think our Tuong guy from a couple of weeks ago who had that criminal history charge come back. I don't think he's been successful. I think he's still sitting on the sidelines. So yeah, like I'm I don't, I don't I'm not celebrating this at all. What do you what are your thoughts?

Kasey McDonald (1:01:11) yeah, look, I have to tend to agree. and having, you know, operated and lived on the Gold Coast for a long time, you know, the Ray White Surfers Paradise Group is so well known, the bells are so well known within that landscape.

Peter Schravemade (1:01:22) Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:01:24) so it's just really unfortunate that this is I guess the ticket right to the end of his career. but agree,

Peter Schravemade (1:01:31) Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:01:32) I think someone is obviously sitting back saying, Yeah, that was me and I tip them off and you know, maybe having a joke about this, but I just don't think it's something to joke about and I yep, there are rules and you know, but really Yeah. Yeah. Correct.

Peter Schravemade (1:01:43) Just give make a call to him. Reject, you know, you haven't done this yet. Genuinely, I don't think he would have tried to retain it. I I just think it's one of those things that agents forget about over a period of time. But do you do you think

Kasey McDonald (1:01:55) Correct. Yeah. Yeah, and you know

Peter Schravemade (1:02:00) here's the other thing? Do you think something like that's going to stop him from consulting in in any kind of and I'm not suggesting

Kasey McDonald (1:02:05) No.

Peter Schravemade (1:02:06) that this is his avenue forward, but like with five decades of knowledge of real estate. professional like people will still still pay this guy to you advise them on directions forward. The bankruptcy notice and loss of license isn't going to do that. He's probably not going to practice as an agent anymore.

Kasey McDonald (1:02:24) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:02:25) He'd probably go more into the development sector, which is ironically, might have been what has bought this undone. So I look I you know I'm with you. I'm not celebrating the you

Kasey McDonald (1:02:35) Yeah. No.

Peter Schravemade (1:02:36) know, I d I there is for whatever this guy has done to you, whether it's bad or good, we should never be celebrating, you know, an end to a five decade career

Kasey McDonald (1:02:46) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:02:47) in this in this fashion. So, yeah, I don't know who's been affected and I don't know the vic the outcome here. I'm just saying from a property professional perspective, it's it's unfortunate. The whole scenario is unfortunate.

Kasey McDonald (1:02:57) Yeah. Definitely. But I agree. You know, there there's a lot that the bells know about this industry. More importantly, you know, the downturns and the upsides and the swings and all the different market conditions

Peter Schravemade (1:03:09) Mm. Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:03:11) that they have been through. you know, so there's a wealth of knowledge there. so yeah, look, maybe

Peter Schravemade (1:03:18) Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:03:18) that will be the play. we obviously don't know, but look, you know, personally, Greg, you know, we wish you all the best. in whatever your next

Peter Schravemade (1:03:27) Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:03:28) pathway forward is. And hopefully that is to help those newly coming into the industry understand how in which they can be setting things up correctly to be go through these types of challenges that they're gonna face. Yeah. As a business owner, as a sales

Peter Schravemade (1:03:40) Yeah. Yep. J Jin

Kasey McDonald (1:03:43) agent, all of those things, right? Like leverage leverage the knowledge and the learnings from these types of people, I think.

Peter Schravemade (1:03:49) D do you know what I just realized, Kasey? You're not gonna like this.

Kasey McDonald (1:03:51) What? What?

Peter Schravemade (1:03:53) He's been operating in the real estate industry longer than you and I have been alive.

Kasey McDonald (1:03:57) Right. Yeah. Crazy. That's what I mean. Like it's totally impressive, but it like yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:04:00) That's impressive. That's impressive. I know you I know you I know you hate me comparing things with age because you're you're still only 21. But for for an old bloke like me, that's like that's impressive. That is impressive. That poor bastard

Kasey McDonald (1:04:14) it is.

Peter Schravemade (1:04:15) has that guy needs to see a psychologist. He's been in the industry for longer than I've been alive. Gosh, I don't know if I'll last that long, but

Kasey McDonald (1:04:18) yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:04:23) we'll see. With here we are. Here we are. Still going on a Friday. Anyway.

Kasey McDonald (1:04:26) Mm-hmm. Yeah, we are

QCAT's warning to PMs who represent owners: Burlington Realty v Farmer and Farmer

Peter Schravemade (1:04:28) Let's let's move on. This is a very interesting one. So this is a QCAT appeal slapdown. And I think

Kasey McDonald (1:04:33) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:04:34) this is a a bit of a message, I I believe, for our property managers. So the if you want to have a look at it, it's Burlington

Kasey McDonald (1:04:39) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (1:04:40) Realty v Farmer and Farmer. It's published as a major legal warning by Carter Newell Lawyers. Carter Newell Lawyers are an outstanding bunch of people. I've met these guys personally. The they their office does

Kasey McDonald (1:04:53) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:04:53) not feel like a ri a lawyer office. They they feel they feel like they've got this young crew and one day I happened to be I forget what I was doing. I think Antonia was doing across the media at and she had to do it from Carter Newell there. And I met these guys and reminded me of of me having beers on a Friday from eighteen to eighteen to twenty-five. They're a great bunch of people and very, very chilled. But they've they've issued a major legal warning with the REIQ that

Kasey McDonald (1:05:22) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (1:05:23) QCAT, Queensland Appeals Tribunal, handed down a stinging decision in this case. A tenant's downstairs home flooded during a weather event due to a property defect. The tenant claimed compensation at QCAT for damaged business equipment and loss of amenity. And the managing agency appeal appeared appeared. They not did not appeal. They appeared at the original hearing, representing the landlord under section two six. Of the Residential Tenancies and Rooming Accommodation Act of 2008. They lost the case and then sought leave to appeal, complaining

Kasey McDonald (1:05:58) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (1:05:58) that they were denied procedural fairness because the adjudicator didn't help them challenge the tenant's evidence or grant an adjournment and argue they were arguing the landlord shouldn't be liable because the tenant failed to hold their own contents insurance. The appeal, the appeal tribunal dismissed the agency appeal,

Kasey McDonald (1:06:15) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (1:06:16) agency's appeal across the board.

Kasey McDonald (1:06:18) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:06:19) they are saying that you guys are paid professionals, not self-represented amateurs. So, like in this instance, is as I understand it, had had they been like a self-represented landlord, which we've said repeatedly on the program, we wouldn't do and we don't advise it. in this particular instance, the tribunal made it crystal clear that when a property manager steps into the shoes of a lessor at QCAT, they are held to a professional standard of competence. You can't rock up unprepared, fail to ask for an adjournment on the record, fail to cross examine the tenants' invoices and then cry unfairness on appeal, expecting the adjudicator to do your job to you. Now I'm sure you've been to QCAT before, Kasey. How how are you feeling about that? Are you have you recovered?

Kasey: train junior PMs before you send them to tribunal

Kasey McDonald (1:07:02) Have I recovered? well actually, I actually only have been once in my entire career within property management. and I think it yeah,

Peter Schravemade (1:07:13) Really? I've been twice.

Kasey McDonald (1:07:14) so I think it just comes down to you know, those practices that you've got in place prior. There's a couple of things here that I want to make some point on. principals listening or team leaders of property management departments, that this whole professional standard of competence is accurate. We are sending sometimes our junior representatives in who have never stood in a tribunal matter, they haven't got sometimes the life experiences to even understand what do some of these things mean? Like how do they know when they can step in and cross examine a tenant's invoice? How do we know that they can ask for an adjournment on the record? Like what are we doing as businesses and within our industry to help ensure that we are training adequately these types of situations? workshopping them, role playing them, having them as real life scenarios within your business to make sure that those that you're sending to represent the landlord in these types of cases, well regardless of what the case is, is that they are not junior, they've got adequate training, and they understand what types of questions and things that they can actually do in that case, in these situations. And I think it falls back on to us as an industry. I feel really sorry For the property manager who had to probably attend there, because in this situation, what what I'm reading out of that is that they were so upset and overwhelmed because she didn't know that she could do these things, he or she. because there

Peter Schravemade (1:08:44) Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:08:45) was no not the training in preparation. And it isn't the adjudicator's responsibility to do our job for us. We should know what's required. And that falls back onto us as an industry to make sure that we are adequately trained and we're sending the most appropriately trained and senior person. to these situations. The second point I want to bang on about, right, is this whole the tenants should have had contents insurance. should they have it, should they not have it, at the end of the day, that's not our choice. it just as like it's us saying we recommend that as a landlord you have landlord protection insurance. That as simply is as it is, right? That's the argument.

Peter Schravemade (1:09:26) Mm.

Kasey McDonald (1:09:26) Tenant, we recommend that you also take out your your own Contents insurance to protect your belongings should anything occur. But at the end of the day, that is their choice to do so. And I don't think in this situation, to kind of I guess represent the case to say, well, the the tenant didn't have it, so bad luck on the tenant. again, I think that's a an incredibly poor lack of education and knowledge awareness around

Peter Schravemade (1:09:51) Mm.

Kasey McDonald (1:09:52) that kind of component, right? And that's not to say you're not giving insurance advice, you're not giving financial advice. It it's a recommendation to say, here's a solution and here's an option. You go and explore it and it's your decision to take it out. If you don't, here's maybe some things that have happened that you're not going to be protected for, but at the end of the day, that's your decision.

Peter Schravemade (1:10:10) Yeah, I'm happy to go on the record. They can quote me if they want. You're an

Kasey McDonald (1:10:12) Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:10:14) idiot if you don't have landlord's insurance. That l let's go with that. But but but are you y yeah, you'd have to recommend it. No. No. It's not their fault.

Kasey McDonald (1:10:16) You are, you are, right? Like you you simply are, but it's you know, you can't blame the tenant in this situation, right? You can't say, bad luck on the tenant, they they this flooded and bad luck they didn't have their contents insured. That's not the attitude that's not the attitude we need

Peter Schravemade (1:10:27) Yeah. Yeah, they didn't have contents. Yeah. No, I know.

Kasey McDonald (1:10:31) to be taking either.

Peter Schravemade (1:10:33) No, and I'll add one further to you, is that

Kasey McDonald (1:10:35) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:10:36) if you are if you have a a property manager facing QCAT, and and especially if they're junior, I would be triaging them in a certain way. So if it's

Kasey McDonald (1:10:45) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:10:45) a minor complaint, maybe you would let it go themselves. If it's anything over a minor complaint, they would need to buddy up with someone who is experienced in how

Kasey McDonald (1:10:53) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:10:53) to process those QCAT.

Kasey McDonald (1:10:56) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (1:10:56) claims. We always had that. So you know, if it was it was over a certain amount or our our exposure was great, our insurer, actu insurer would actually step in. And at the, you know, at the time, I forget who that was. It was we organized it through Aon. so I think it I think it was CG I can't remember. Actually, don't quote

Kasey McDonald (1:11:13) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:11:14) me on that. But our insurer stepped in and said best practice would dictate that if if you have a junior staff member and that was somebody who had you know I I think they gave us had Had been to QCAT before, there were levels of it. But

Kasey McDonald (1:11:27) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:11:27) we had this office policy in place where a senior member of our property management team or our C-suite staff would set step in. And I think this is why I have been there twice

Kasey McDonald (1:11:37) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:11:38) and you've only been there once, is that we had greater exposure on two of them. And one of these was actually me taking our property manager to QCAT. So it wasn't, it wasn't the other way around. It wasn't defending. It was like a ridiculous case where a property manager who didn't understand the legislation and just thought they could throw stuff back on me. I think it was a cleaning fees and a cost of a key,

Kasey McDonald (1:12:01) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:12:02) and then refused to mediate the whole way through on such a small amount, decided to turn up at QCAT and the the Office of Fair Trading magistrate, no, sorry, the yeah, the QCAT magistrate threw it out of court. They paid costs and whatever else. So it it is a I I've seen this before.

Kasey McDonald (1:12:19) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:12:19) And I think triaging in in order should also be something that you look at. shall we keep keep going? this this is we yeah well we didn't

Kasey McDonald (1:12:25) Definitely. Yes. what do we got? Next case. Next story. Hmm.

A former Lake Macquarie principal's trial and the case for people-and-culture reporting

Peter Schravemade (1:12:31) we didn't we didn't name this guy the other day. It has been it is still alleged.

Kasey McDonald (1:12:36) Okay.

Peter Schravemade (1:12:37) we've we've heard about this before. This is one that we're following and we probably don't need to continue on to it but there's a there is now the full story. So in the in the past Newcastle real estate aid real estate principal Anthony Di Nardo had been arrested. We knew about that. We

Kasey McDonald (1:12:52) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:12:52) didn't put his name forward because I I mean he's still it's still only alleged. It it it does it does look bad. He stands accused of sexually assaulting eight female employees over a sustained 17-year period. prosecutors heard in court this week that his upcoming trial is expected to run for six weeks and maybe move moved out of Newcastle Lake Macquarie region to Sydney. I mean, I'm I'm

Kasey McDonald (1:13:17) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:13:17) I'm tired I'm tired. I I grow tired of this. I I I really thought we were beyond this. We're obviously not. it's still alleged. I'm not saying he's done it. he he he's innocent until pr you know, found guilty of these. So I'll be really, really clear about what we're putting there. But

Kasey McDonald (1:13:37) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:13:38) it's just it it it it's a high profile one, that's why it's been moved to Sydney. where everyone in the local industry knows everyone out of

Kasey McDonald (1:13:47) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (1:13:47) but I think you know the one that I'd highlight out of the three points that we've got here is that for if this is even a thing, if he if if even any of these allegations are true, within that large real estate franchise there has been no HR policy reporting procedure for

Kasey McDonald (1:14:06) Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:14:08) this to have become a problem in the way that it is. And before any allegations, you know, become factual or anyone's convicted of anything, if if they had a functional HR department, we probably wouldn't be seeing a story like this. but but I'm well aware that in instances where somebody is predatory, and I'm not saying Anthony Di Nardo is predatory. I'm not this is not an allegation, but we've seen deliberate deliberately, those people may not have had a HR department because they

Kasey McDonald (1:14:41) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:14:41) potentially, you know, like I can you imagine walking into a judge and the judge going, why did you not have a HR department? Well we don't

Kasey McDonald (1:14:48) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (1:14:49) like HR. Well, I don't I don't care, buddy. I don't care. You know, it doesn't it doesn't look good. So I don't think it's going to stand them instead in good stead here. But I you know, obviously you would echo my sentiments. This is a black eye on us, you know, just

Kasey McDonald (1:15:00) Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. Again, it's just looking kind of internally with these situations and kind of going, you know, do do do

Peter Schravemade (1:15:09) Might be a tip.

Kasey McDonald (1:15:10) do do we have these practices in place, right? And I think now yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:15:14) Might be might be a tip though. Like would you would you now join would you now join a large franchise that didn't have a HR department? Like I've got to say, Kasey, I don't like HR departments either,

Kasey McDonald (1:15:21) No. What? Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:15:25) but I mean that the it just it let's go with an independent people and culture department. Because I'm not I'm not a

Kasey McDonald (1:15:30) huh. Yeah. Well they don't need to be called HR, I do agree with that, right? Like I think it's yeah. No.

Peter Schravemade (1:15:35) But but I'm I'm I'm not above the law. Like, you know, if if you and I work together and and you're like I am the the worst politically correct person, I throw insults at you that you probably could have had me up on HR if you were if you weren't I said today you s you remain 21. That is a compliment last I checked.

Kasey McDonald (1:15:49) I know you keep talking about my age all of the time.

Peter Schravemade (1:16:00) There are gonna be people writing in file at under we need a HR department for

Kasey McDonald (1:16:02) Yeah. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:16:05) before the weekend send

Kasey McDonald (1:16:05) before the weekend. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:16:07) send that one to Kasey, McDonald Tutaki as well as I

Kasey McDonald (1:16:09) Ha

Peter Schravemade (1:16:11) can I I can see I can see what's gonna be happening on Saturday. But I you know I'm not I'm not above the law either, neither

Kasey McDonald (1:16:17) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:16:18) are you and and there needs to be some kind of reporting structure, I think.

Kasey McDonald (1:16:20) Yeah, absolutely.

Peter Schravemade (1:16:22) And I think even if you're looking for a department and you you are you know you are concerned about those things, I think that's a relevant thing to ask. Especially if, you know, you're coming in and and that might be something that you've experienced before. Look again there are other people you can reach out to if you're a member of the real estate institutes or they are a member and and you and this is not happening, it doesn't have to be HR. There is help available. So

Kasey McDonald (1:16:47) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:16:47) don't forget it's not just within that. I think some of the real estate institutes would definitely assist in you in that area. I hope I'm not speaking out of line on that, but I better check it with them. I'll ask them on tomorrow night.

Kasey McDonald (1:16:55) Exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Feel-good: Cunninghams' new partners and the Tarneit turnaround

Peter Schravemade (1:17:02) it feel good story to finish with. Feel good story. So ending on the show on two genuine bright spots, which is something I've been trying to do. Culture and retention done right, Northern Beaches agency Cunninghams. Now I I I love these guys. John Cunningham is a he's a yeah, he's a good dude. So he he

Kasey McDonald (1:17:12) Mm-hmm. Yeah, John Cunningham and the team are fantastic. Hmm. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:17:21) celebrated more than two decades of dedication by promoting two long-serving team members to partner. this is great.

Kasey McDonald (1:17:28) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:17:29) if you speak to people who've been in the industry quite some time, sorry, Leanne Pilkington, I'm gonna throw you under the bus. I don't know

Kasey McDonald (1:17:34) Ya

Peter Schravemade (1:17:35) how to say anything more than that. But Leanne talks about quite frequently succession planning and

Kasey McDonald (1:17:39) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:17:39) and I'm looking at another office this week that is very poor at succession planning and what what happens, like how do we how do we how do we create a legacy? how

Kasey McDonald (1:17:50) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:17:51) do we create surety around our brand? I I don't know the scenario here, but it's really good to see. And

Kasey McDonald (1:17:56) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:17:57) we got an We got another one in Melbourne's West, one of the hardest hit mortgage belts in the country. Agent Kartavya Thakkar, I think I've pronounced that K-I-K-A-R-T-A-V-Y-A. He took over a stale long-listed property in Tarneit that had sat unloved with another agency, completely rebuilt the home open home schedule and hyperlike community marketing campaign and sold it prior to auction this week for a hugely relieved local family. So

Kasey McDonald (1:18:26) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:18:27) two. Two bright points in there. I mean, I think,

Kasey McDonald (1:18:29) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:18:31) you know, this is a bit of an antidote to the 15 to 20% leaving the industry. the the sales one, well, you operate in, and obviously,

Kasey McDonald (1:18:41) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (1:18:42) you know, I've got a company called Property Credit that operate very much in that space where buy renovation should not stand in the way of you selling in a property. And it sounds

Kasey McDonald (1:18:52) Hundred percent. Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:18:53) sounds like this agent knows that and has has jumped into that area. So, you know, it's definitely not advised. I think I've shared personally the story I picked up of the property I picked up here. Had they known about you know, some of these companies, they would never have sold it at the the

Kasey McDonald (1:19:09) Mm-hmm.

Peter Schravemade (1:19:09) lower cost that they did. But because they didn't and you know, there was an acrimonious divorce involved, they got a lot less than they probably should have got for this property simply because it wasn't presented well for auction. That's not me. That's me jumping in when you know a submit all offer scenarios there, there's been it's been on the market for eleven months. So if you're a real estate agency and you're not selling something 'cause it's unrenovated, there are solutions there for you, just FYI. Exactly.

Kasey McDonald (1:19:35) Absolutely, a hundred percent. And the same from a leasing perspective, right? if yeah, you know, you you're attracting a h a home or you're saying hey, you know, we would love to look after you, but we need X, Y, and Z done. and don't, you know, don't hold back on having that conversation to make sure that it's also rent ready. But what I just love about this is the way obviously Cunninghams have also looked at this, right? It's about

Peter Schravemade (1:20:01) Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:20:02) how do I actually treat my long term staff. like genuine, you know, partners rather than it just being, well, hey, you know, yep, you've done a great job here. And maybe that person then might start their own agency, which then becomes a com a a competitive agency to you. And what John and the team

Peter Schravemade (1:20:20) Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:20:20) there have done is gone, well, how do we make sure they stay within our realms and and they stay long term loyal staff members and be can and have a career pathway to partnership at Cunninghams. And I think That is it it's just something really great because there's so many of us that have been in the industry for a long time. And I think there's then lots of people that move around. good sales people themselves are always poached. We know this, all right? It's not uncommon that you're then poached by the competitor to say, Come and work for me and you're gonna get this extra and maybe it's just commission. Maybe it is, they might get a little bit of buy in. But why haven't we thought about that in our four walls? so awesome. Loved, loved, loved, loved. that story and that's what we're finishing on on this fabulous Friday.

Sign-off: a quarter century of Fridays

Peter Schravemade (1:21:06) Fantastic. And yes, I wherever you are, wherever you've been listening to, whatever convention you've seen us at, I apologize in advance, particularly

Kasey McDonald (1:21:11) Mm. Yeah

Peter Schravemade (1:21:14) for Kasey, not necessarily for me. But it's been it's been great to have you on the show and listening to us. Obviously, you can hear you can catch up with us at all the major streaming services. The the the show notes will

Kasey McDonald (1:21:25) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (1:21:26) be on beforetheweekend.com forward slash episodes if you want to go there and have a look at that. don't forget if you've got anything to send us at hello@beforetheweekend.com is where you would send it through to us. But Kasey, I guess I'll be seeing you tomorrow night.

Kasey McDonald (1:21:40) Yes.

Peter Schravemade (1:21:41) more more importantly, I'll be seeing your husband for a beer. That's that's which is great. Big shout out to Arhee who on a regular basis puts up with Kasey McDonald. There we go again. There's another registered complaint to HR.

Kasey McDonald (1:21:55) Yeah. I know. Now I'm gonna have to go through and get psych psychos psychological training here just to kind of, you know, manage all of this negativity and this energy that you're bringing

Peter Schravemade (1:22:07) Ha ha ha.

Kasey McDonald (1:22:08) into my mental wellness space, Pete, right? Yeah. No. Yeah, sure, I'm sure I'm sure you will. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:22:11) I know, I know. I'll I'll shout you I'll shout you a champagne to apologize for it tomorrow. I have done many times. Wherever

Kasey McDonald (1:22:20) Yeah, yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:22:22) you are on this Friday, whatever you're doing, if you're putting open high home signs out open for inspections or you're traveling around, I hope it's a safe and productive

Kasey McDonald (1:22:29) Mm.

Peter Schravemade (1:22:30) weekend for all of you. On behalf of Kasey and I, thanks for letting us hit a quarter of a century, 25 episodes. We intend to keep bringing the news to you and the conversations that matter that sit outside of rate rises and just the boring stuff that we generally bang on about as a real real estate industry. and and thanks so much for being a supporter and listener of the program. Kasey, I I I think it's normally your your job to say that that's a wrap, but I might take it off you today.

Kasey McDonald (1:22:57) That's a wrap.

Peter Schravemade (1:23:00) She's she's put it in there. She's put it in there. Where it

Kasey McDonald (1:23:02) She put it in there. You take it away, Pete. I don't want to steal your thunder today. I know, you know

Peter Schravemade (1:23:08) Yeah, yeah, it's normally

Kasey McDonald (1:23:08) I know that you've been at all these events and you were the only male and we've had all these fantastic female presenters and you're feeling a little, you know, left out. That's okay, yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:23:16) Diminished. No, I feel fine. yep.

Kasey McDonald (1:23:19) Ha ha ha.

Peter Schravemade (1:23:21) Great to have you on the program. We'll catch you again next week. Ciao all.

Kasey McDonald (1:23:23) Yeah. Thank you. See you everyone. Have a happy weekend.