The Inaugural Episode

Before The Weekend (00:00)

G'day, happy Friday. Welcome to the inaugural podcast of Before the Weekend. My name's Peter Shravmade and I'm joined by Casey McDonald. Casey, how you been?

Yeah, great, thanks. ⁓ happy

Kasey McDonald (00:09)

Yeah, great, thanks. happy Friday, Pete.

Before The Weekend (00:11)

Pete. Yeah, how's your week? What what's happening? What's happening in Casey McDonald then?

Kasey McDonald (00:15)

very exciting things happening actually. ⁓ we'll have some news next week and I can tell you a new launcher of what Casey McDonald's up to in the real estate world.

Before The Weekend (00:23)

Can't wait, can't wait.

I got an action packed show today, do we not?

absolutely. ⁓

Kasey McDonald (00:27)

absolutely. ⁓

I'm really excited. We've got some fantastic guests today, but we're covering off on lots of things. ⁓ WA rental reforms, Victoria tenancy application changes, and you know, the shakeup in that space. ⁓ of course, what the whole entire country is talking about, the budget, negative gearing. ⁓ you know, that's all I'm saying all over socials.

Before The Weekend (00:29)

Really excited. We've got some fantastic guests today, but we're covering off on lots of things. ⁓ WA rental reforms, Victoria tenancy application changes, and you know, the shakeup in that space. ⁓ of course, what the whole entire country is talking about the budget, maybe the gearing. you know, that's all I'm seeing all over

Kasey McDonald (00:49)

and of course, I think.

Before The Weekend (00:48)

Yeah, pretty much. I posted about that

morning. Sorry. Industry standards, accountability, you know, all of these things we're kind of seeing also in the news in regards to how we're operating as real estate agents. So jam-packed.

Kasey McDonald (00:51)

Industry standards, accountability, you know, all of these things we're kind of seeing also in the news in regards to how we're operating as real estate agents. So jam packed agenda

Before The Weekend (00:59)

agenda today

Kasey McDonald (00:59)

today, Pete.

Before The Weekend (01:00)

Yeah, and if you've just joined, obviously ⁓ this is before the weekend. You can find us on iTunes, YouTube, Spotify, all the majors out there if you want to subscribe, we'd love you to do that. if you want it all in one location, just go to before the weekend.com. You'll see all of the episodes that we have at the moment. Obviously this is our first, so don't go hunting for episodes ⁓ ten and eleven. but yeah let's let's dig in Casey I'll take the I'll take our music off. ⁓ what are we talking about first?

Kasey McDonald (01:26)

Yeah,

I'd probably like to start with the Victoria changes that they've made ⁓ to the rental application form, prescribed rental application form, right? And I think there's been a little bit of controversy. And I know ⁓ as well yourself, you've experienced this because your daughter's in Victoria and has been applying for properties, right? So yeah, I'd love to probably hear some feedback or I guess the challenges that she's been expressing to you, Pete. ⁓ and you know.

Before The Weekend (01:26)

Yeah, look, I'd probably like to start with the Victoria changes that they've made ⁓ to the rental application form, prescribed rental application form, right? And I think there's been a little bit of controversy. Which is true. And I know as well yourself, you've experienced this because your daughter's in Victoria and has been applying for properties, right? So yeah, I'd love to probably hear some feedback or I guess the challenges that she's been expressing to you, Pete. ⁓ and

you know.

Kasey McDonald (01:54)

you know, what we're kind of hearing, I suppose, from that tenant consumer side, then I'd love to bring in our fantastic guest, Haley Mitchell, where we can really talk about industry, what property managers are thinking and why the change.

Before The Weekend (01:55)

you know, what we're kind of hearing, I suppose, from that tenant consumer side, then I'd love to bring in our fantastic guest, Haley Mitchell, where we can really talk about industry, what property managers are thinking, and

Yeah, yeah. Well, first off, for people who don't understand what a prescribed form is, what what what the hell is that, Casey? What is that? Is that like a

Kasey McDonald (02:12)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (02:14)

Yeah. It sounds like something that's what you said. It sounds like something I give to my GP or the chemist.

Kasey McDonald (02:19)

Well,

okay, I'll make it clear. It gives renters clearer expectations, obviously, when making ⁓ it's meant to make the application process easier. So it's through Consumer Affairs Victoria. And so the prescribed forms means that it's legislative. It's what is required to be used by all property managers in Victoria.

Before The Weekend (02:20)

Well, I okay, I'll make it clear. It gives renters clearer expectations, obviously, when making ⁓ it's meant to make the application process easier. So it's through Consumer Affairs Victoria. And so the prescribed forms means that it's legislative. It's what is required to be used by all property managers

in

All right. Well, so ⁓ why don't we welcome in Hailey and ⁓ we'll see what she has to say about all of this, right? Because

Kasey McDonald (02:43)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (02:44)

we'll get

I would I would not like to say we'll get it from the horse's mouth, but we'll we'll get it from Haley's mouth. We'll go with

Hayley Mitchell (02:48)

kids

I

Before The Weekend (02:51)

how how are

a bit tired. It's been a big week.

Hayley Mitchell (02:52)

bit tired. It's been a big week.

Before The Weekend (02:55)

Well it

Talk took us through your week, Haley. What's been going on?

just

Hayley Mitchell (02:58)

just busy.

Before The Weekend (03:00)

Right. Lots of meetings. ⁓ been on the road since Monday. So I'm going home today.

Hayley Mitchell (03:00)

Lots of meetings. ⁓ been on the road since Monday, so I'm going home today.

Before The Weekend (03:06)

Yeah, outstanding. We we just ⁓ obviously welcome to before the weekend, our inaugural inaugural or inaugural episode one podcast. between Casey and myself, what could go wrong, right?

Hayley Mitchell (03:15)

Love it.

Before The Weekend (03:18)

Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (03:17)

Yeah.

Hayley Mitchell (03:18)

Mm.

yeah, it'll be fine. Awesome.

Before The Weekend (03:20)

Yeah. Yeah. It'll be fine. Awesome.

But ⁓ we before you got on, we just we laid the groundwork for you here. regarding your ⁓ the the the one form, if you want to call it that. We can't call it that because there is actually a tech provider who has that name. But Cavs, your your your Cavs have come up with a great idea to put a singular form for

Hayley Mitchell (03:40)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (03:41)

applications. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah.

Hayley Mitchell (03:43)

Hm. Yep. Yep. It's great.

Before The Weekend (03:45)

Great.

And and how's that working out here? I can say you're incredibly excited about

Kasey McDonald (03:47)

We can say you're incredibly excited about it,

Before The Weekend (03:49)

Haley. It's not

Hayley Mitchell (03:49)

not

Before The Weekend (03:52)

It's not working? It's

great. No. ⁓ no, property managers are we had the RE bar camp yesterday. Yep. ⁓ one of the breakout sessions that we did was on applications and it was just free for all.

Hayley Mitchell (03:53)

great. No. ⁓ no, property managers ⁓ we had the RE bar camp yesterday. one of the breakout sessions that we did was on applications and it was just free for all.

Before The Weekend (04:09)

Is there a specific what are what are they talking about that is a problem?

Hayley Mitchell (04:08)

Yeah. It's not

Kasey McDonald (04:09)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (04:12)

What's the issue?

Hayley Mitchell (04:13)

you can't ask how many children, you can't ask how old the children are, you can't ring the r the employment to verify they actually work there. ⁓ you can't ask about pets, even though pets are a legal requirement on the application. yeah, it's just there's not a lot of information on there. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have ⁓

Before The Weekend (04:14)

you can't ask how many children, you can't ask how old the children are, you can't ring the r the employment to verify they actually work there. you can't ask about pets, even though pets are a legal requirement on the application. yeah, it's just there's not a lot of information on there. So can I show it doesn't have

Hayley Mitchell (04:40)

Doesn't have regio of cars either, which is an issue if you've then got to register them through the owners corporation or if cars are parked in incorrect spots and someone sends you a number plate, like just little things, you know, little things that you

Before The Weekend (04:40)

doesn't have regio of cars either, which is an issue if you've got to register them ⁓ through the owners corporation or if cars are parked in incorrect spots and someone sends you a number like just little things, you know, little things that you

Hayley Mitchell (04:54)

didn't use a lot, but if you ever needed to, it was there. So yeah, there's there's a bit of frustration at the moment in the market.

Before The Weekend (04:54)

didn't use a lot, but if you ever needed to, it was there. So yeah, there's there's a bit of frustration at the moment in the

So can I talk you through my experience of Victorian rentals? And it's it's twofold. The first one was when my eldest daughter

Who you I think you've met now, Georgia, she went to university four years ago, odd. And I went to apply ⁓ with her as you know to get on the lease because we were advised at the time that was a better way of doing it than somebody with zero rental history and no job, right? And as a self-employed person, I was being I was being forensically examined. They were asking me for 10 years of my financials. I

I completed, I think, no less than ten criminal history checks. ⁓ three for the same agency. Now, not we're not talking about a major franchise. We're talking about the same office ⁓ of of that franchise. I completed three. I had no idea when all where all of that information went. ⁓ I asked people to delete it. I actually went to some of the major tech companies and said, Can you please delete that? 'Cause obviously there's

Hayley Mitchell (05:45)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (05:58)

Some very sensitive information in there.

Hayley Mitchell (06:00)

You thought.

Before The Weekend (06:01)

and even amongst the majors, like the major form providers, they could not delete the information. And we've seen that with one of them stung recently for retaining information that they should have, which is a separate issue. But that that was the first that was the first experience. And I would argue that was absolutely horrific from a tenant experience. So I kinda understand why Cavs have have done this. What what is your response to that first?

Hayley Mitchell (06:27)

Yeah, look, I agree. I think ⁓ I don't have a problem with having a standardized form.

Before The Weekend (06:27)

Yeah, look, I agree. I think ⁓ I don't have a problem with having a standardized

Hayley Mitchell (06:33)

just think that we need a little bit more information. So I like to ring an employer and say, Hey, how long have they worked there? What is their employment status? what is their role? What do they earn? You know, if we're we're just relying on a pay slip, you know, let's say they're a casual employer.

Before The Weekend (06:33)

I just think that we need a little bit more information. So I like to ring an employer and say, Hey, how long have they worked there? What is their employment status? what is their role? What do they earn? You know, if we're we're just relying on a pay slip, you know, let's say they're a casual employer.

Hayley Mitchell (06:53)

employee and they give you a pay slip from when they worked heaps over Christmas. So you're rating them on that, but then the rest of the year they don't earn quite as much money. Like it's just you j you just need to ask a few more questions.

Before The Weekend (06:53)

⁓ employee and they give you a payslip from and they worked heaps over Christmas. So you're rating them on that, but then the rest of the year they don't earn quite as much money. Like it's just you just you just need to ask a few more questions.

Hayley Mitchell (07:08)

the

Before The Weekend (07:08)

so you're not getting the

Hayley Mitchell (07:09)

of it I actually don't have a problem with where it says two forms of ID, two forms financial, like all of that stuff I'm absolutely fine with.

Before The Weekend (07:09)

information you need. I don't have a problem with where it says two forms of ID, two forms of financial all of that stuff I'm absolutely fine

with. I just think there's a

Hayley Mitchell (07:17)

I just think there's a few

little bits that would really make it easy. And the pet one is going to be a really big issue because under the legislation, if a renter wants to get a pet, they have to apply for it in a form approved by CAV. So if we can't ask about pets at the start, and if that form is not attached to the CAV application form,

Before The Weekend (07:18)

few little bits that would really make it easy. And the pet one is going to be a really big issue because under the legislation, if a renter wants to get a pet, they have to apply for it in a form approved by CAV. So if we can't ask about pets at the start, and if that form is not attached to the CAV application form,

we're going to have issues where renters move into properties.

Hayley Mitchell (07:44)

We're gonna have issues where renters move into properties haven't

Before The Weekend (07:47)

haven't applied for a pet and then they're in breach of their lease. Yeah. Yeah. So have a box that says, do you have a pet and then automatically attach a pet form and we're we're good to go. You know, that's that's probably the main gripe, I would say, at the

Hayley Mitchell (07:48)

applied for a pet and then they're in breach of their lease. So have a box that says, Do you have a pet and then automatically attach a pet form and we're we're good to go. You know, that's that's probably the main gripe, I would say, at the moment.

Before The Weekend (08:03)

So is are are you saying in a very roundabout way that it's it's impeding your ability to equit your fiduciary duty to the

Hayley Mitchell (08:12)

great.

Before The Weekend (08:13)

Is is that is that it in a nutshell? Because it doesn't give you enough information. You have a f fiduciary obligation. You've got to act in their best interests. And at the moment, the only data that you're getting, and a lot of the the property managers said this to me that it was it was simply about the financial implications, right?

Hayley Mitchell (08:14)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (08:30)

And that's

Hayley Mitchell (08:29)

That's right.

Before The Weekend (08:30)

The really hard really hard when you can't confirm their employment too, I suppose.

So ⁓ is you're

you're a board you're a board member for the REIV.

Hayley Mitchell (08:38)

The other thing is

other thing is, Pete, they can give us more info and we can take

Before The Weekend (08:42)

The other thing is, Pete, they can give us more info and we can take

Hayley Mitchell (08:46)

one thing that I used

Before The Weekend (08:46)

So one thing

Hayley Mitchell (08:47)

love when when Tenant applied was give me a cover letter. Tell me about yourself. Right. How cool would that be?

Before The Weekend (08:47)

I used to love with when Tenant applied was give me a cover letter. Well this is Tell me about yourself. This is where I was this is where I was going.

Kasey McDonald (08:55)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (08:56)

No,

this is where I was going. So Georgia, my daughter, was applying at Tech Fest, which you were at.

and Yeah, I saw it. I

Hayley Mitchell (09:02)

Yeah, yeah, I've I saw her at the pub, remember?

Before The Weekend (09:04)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. And and so she was given outstanding advice by one of the ladies at Techfest to supply voluntarily ⁓ information about herself. And no joke, she went back and did that that night, that we're at the pub that night. She went and did that, and she got that rental the next day. And the lady said the thing stopping your rental is I was calling one of your referees who said that your fiance had a dog. Now he does, that's true. He has a dog, but it lives on the farm.

Kasey McDonald (09:05)

Yeah.

Hayley Mitchell (09:12)

Yep. That's right.

Before The Weekend (09:32)

With his parents. So unbel unbelievable. So if you're a tenant out there, I think the most important piece of advice has just come from Haley Mitchell, who can't ask for it in her own right as a property manager, but you can supply voluntarily this information. And if you're going, like Georgia was to houses that have sixty to seventy people walking through them and applying, it may give you a bit of a point of difference at the moment. What what what do you reckon, Haley? What do you reckon?

Hayley Mitchell (09:58)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (10:00)

Casey, what what what do you think about that?

Yeah, look, I I encourage it regardless of what state you're in. You know, like why not do a cover letter? ⁓ I know that many in Queensland in terms of, you know, the the pet situations, they started doing like I get pet pet resumes, right? As well of here's a photo of my pet and you know, kind of things like that. So ⁓ I think that that's something that we should absolutely encourage.

Kasey McDonald (10:03)

Yeah, look, I I I encourage it regardless of what state you're in. You know, like why not do a cover letter? ⁓ I know that many in Queensland in terms of, you know, the the pet situations, they started doing like I get pet pet resumes, right? As well of here's a photo of my pet and, you know, kind of things like that. So ⁓ I think that that's something that we should absolutely encourage.

Before The Weekend (10:24)

Yeah. Well, you

Kasey McDonald (10:24)

you know,

Before The Weekend (10:25)

voluntarily, of course, but

Kasey McDonald (10:25)

of course, but

Hayley Mitchell (10:25)

Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (10:26)

you know, say, Hey, this is something that maybe you should consider regardless of what state

Hayley Mitchell (10:26)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (10:27)

You know, say, hey, this is something that maybe you should consider regardless of what

Kasey McDonald (10:31)

in.

Before The Weekend (10:31)

you're in.

Hayley, one last question. Is the REIV, I know I know you're a board member there, are they advocating I I would assume they'll be lobbying behind the scenes. Toby and Jaca, they do a f Jacob do a fantastic job down there, but they will be they will be into the cabs, right?

Yeah. So Sarica ⁓ heads up that department and she's taken a lot of feedback on board from the committees and the board. ⁓ and

Hayley Mitchell (10:45)

Yeah, so Sarica ⁓ heads up that kind of department and she's taken a lot of feedback on board from the committees and the board. ⁓ and she's

been in correspondence with CAV. So we are hoping there may be some tweaks in the future. ⁓ and, you know, these things get rolled out and they've got to be tested and we have to give feedback. So we're just hoping that we can get a few of our little changes put through.

Before The Weekend (10:54)

She's been in correspondence with CAV. So we are hoping there may be some tweaks in the future. ⁓ and you know, these things get rolled out and they've got to be tested and we have to give feedback. So we're just hoping that we can get a few of our little changes put

Very good.

Kasey McDonald (11:11)

Fantastic.

Before The Weekend (11:12)

⁓ what do you think ⁓ it's gonna mean for the third party platforms that you know the agencies are are using in kind of moving into this space. Are you are you hearing much noise?

Kasey McDonald (11:12)

What do you think ⁓ it's gonna mean for the third party platforms that, you know, the agencies are are using in Victoria and then kind of moving into this space? Are you are you hearing much noise

on the ground about that?

Before The Weekend (11:24)

On the ground about

that?

Hayley Mitchell (11:26)

With the application forms.

Before The Weekend (11:26)

With the application forms.

Kasey McDonald (11:27)

With the application forms, yeah. So the third party providers.

Before The Weekend (11:27)

With the application forms, yeah. So the third party providers.

Hayley Mitchell (11:30)

Yeah, it's ⁓ it's really interesting. I did a bit of research on the, you know, news that came out couple of weeks ago, wasn't it? With the platform taking a little bit too much information. the funny thing was it was all over the media, you know, like it was a b it's a big thing. And I put posts of it in my membership and also in my little region my little Facebook groups that I don't run.

Before The Weekend (11:31)

Yeah, it's ⁓ it's really interesting. I did a bit of research on the, you know, news that came out a couple of weeks ago, wasn't it, with the platform taking a little bit too much information. the funny thing was it was all over the media, you know, like it was a bit it's a big thing. And I put posts of it in my membership and also in my little region my little Facebook groups that I don't

run.

Hayley Mitchell (11:56)

And I asked property managers about it yesterday and I reckon half a room said, What are you talking about? Like they didn't even know. I'm like, we need to know this stuff. Yeah, I was chatting to a P a couple of PMs yesterday and they said that they've actually stopped using the platforms. They've ⁓ put the C A V application form into Job form and they get people to apply through there because it gives us more

Before The Weekend (11:57)

And I asked property managers about it yesterday and I can half a room said, What are you talking about? Like they didn't even know. I'm like, we need to know this stuff. Wow. Yeah, I was chatting to a P a couple of PMs yesterday and they said that they've actually stopped using the platforms. ⁓ They've ⁓ put the C A V application form into job form and they get people to apply through there because it gives us

more.

Hayley Mitchell (12:25)

that gives

Before The Weekend (12:25)

that gives them more control. and I thought that was quite interesting, doing it that way. ⁓ and I hadn't heard that before. So so I thought that was kind of cool. ⁓ and as long as you're using the prescribed information then that's no extra. It's fun. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, it it ⁓ I I think we need an overhaul with a lot of things in the legislation. So I'm just hoping that ⁓ they they do that and they just make it better for everyone.

Hayley Mitchell (12:25)

them more control. and I thought that was quite interesting, doing it that way. ⁓ and I hadn't heard that before. So so I thought that was kind of cool. and as long as you're using the prescribed information then that's no issue. yeah, it it ⁓ I I think we need an overhaul with a lot of things in the legislation. So I'm just hoping that ⁓ they they do that and they just make it better for everyone.

in

the industry. Make it better for the renter, make it better for the property manager, for the owner, but make it fair on everyone as well.

Before The Weekend (12:55)

in the industry. Make it better for the renter, make it better for the property manager, for the owner, but make it fair on everyone as

well.

Yeah. Yeah, good. Understood. Hayley Mitchell, just before you go, one thing I'm gonna ask all of our guests today, well, o obviously if you if you haven't been alive or living under a rock, we the our budget dropped recently. just in in either a thumbs up or a thumbs down, what what's your take on the budget?

Kasey McDonald (13:03)

Yeah, good point.

Hayley Mitchell (13:18)

Can I be like halfway?

Before The Weekend (13:19)

Can I be like halfway?

it's halfway. Okay. You you sitting on the fence. That's called the fence hitter, Haley.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not usually I'm

Kasey McDonald (13:24)

yeah.

Hayley Mitchell (13:25)

I'm not usually I'm

Before The Weekend (13:27)

No, I know. I know. You're definitely not a fence hitter. But okay, okay. Halfway. I I won't get you to explain it because we're out of time. But ⁓ yeah, thank you so much for joining and being a guest on our first show. Great to see you. Obviously we'll be catching up soon. ⁓ also, if you're not aware of what Haley does, e excellent source of information in the property management area.

Hayley Mitchell (13:27)

quite. Okay, so

Before The Weekend (13:48)

Mitchell PT, you can find her online. We'll put the links in our in our whatever it is we're going to do with this when we're finished. Thanks for joining,

Hayley Mitchell (13:54)

I love it.

Before The Weekend (13:55)

Put it on Spotify, you know, iTunes,

Kasey McDonald (13:55)

Put it on Spotify, you know, iTunes, all of those

Before The Weekend (13:58)

of those things. All of those things we were doing, too.

Kasey McDonald (13:58)

I thought that's what we were doing, Pete. Yeah.

Before The Weekend (14:01)

See you later, Haley.

Kasey McDonald (14:01)

Thanks,

Before The Weekend (14:02)

you.

Kasey McDonald (14:01)

Happy Friday.

Bye.

Hayley Mitchell (14:03)

spy.

Before The Weekend (14:04)

yeah, yeah. When we were talking about this off air, ⁓ it was it was interesting 'cause I thought what could go wrong with a prescribed form or like a a just a singular form, but

⁓ I yeah, I was pretty sure that they were saying they didn't like it. ⁓ should we move on to our next topic, which is ⁓ if I'm not mistaken, it's the ⁓ WA rent reform and we've got an expert joining us. How about we welcome in ⁓ Ashley? Yes.

Kasey McDonald (14:23)

Yes.

Yes.

Before The Weekend (14:27)

Yes, let's welcome in Ashley Goodchild, ⁓ all the way from fabulous WA. It's very early in the morning over there. So we absolutely appreciate you joining us. Yeah, we're sorry. Nice and early. We're sorry, yes. Fabulous Friday, Ashley.

Kasey McDonald (14:27)

Yes. Let's welcome in Ashley Goodchild. ⁓ all the way ⁓ from Fabulous WA. It's very early in the morning over there, so we absolutely appreciate you joining us ⁓ nice and early on this fabulous Friday, Ashley.

Ashleigh Goodchild (14:31)

Morning.

Before The Weekend (14:40)

We're sorry. It was Casey's idea.

Ashleigh Goodchild (14:41)

I I am

Kasey McDonald (14:42)

ha ha. ⁓

Ashleigh Goodchild (14:42)

early. But it is pretty early too. We have an opinion before a coffee, so we'll see how we go

Before The Weekend (14:42)

I I am actually but it is pretty early too. We have an opinion before a coffee,

Kasey McDonald (14:48)

Ha ha ha ha.

Before The Weekend (14:48)

we'll see how we go today. Well, you know, some people are just coming back from the pubs over there, Ashley, so Obvious obviously not you. Hey, look, ⁓ we welcome to our first podcast, our episode one before the weekend. really good to have you on board and we we wanted to gauge Casey and I were talking off air about the WA rent reforms. Obviously

some of these things we've seen in the eastern states and we like we don't like to say we're ahead of you, but ⁓ well, we've s we've seen a bit of this go down. So ⁓ but we thought we would speak to a Western Australian herself and ⁓ gauge w what the feeling on the ground is. Can you talk us through s what some of those changes are and what's going on?

Kasey McDonald (15:14)

Ha ha.

Yeah.

Ashleigh Goodchild (15:25)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (15:27)

Yeah. So well actually hold on, can I just say something really funny? I thought we're actually talking about the budget today. So I've

Ashleigh Goodchild (15:26)

well actually hold on, can I just say something really funny? I thought we were actually talking about the budget today, so I've like been doing my research on the budget

and then you've just throwing in the reforms.

Before The Weekend (15:33)

been doing my research on the

then you

Kasey McDonald (15:37)

Don't you worry, we're gonna throw a budget question in for you later. So your research won't go you know, ⁓ unnoticed.

Before The Weekend (15:37)

might don't you worry we're gonna throw a budget question in for you later we may but so your research won't go you know unnoticed okay awesome awesome ⁓ so yeah so the reforms are basically bringing in the no grounds termination ⁓ and banning that so the feeling on the ground about it well actually it's been distracted because of the budget but ⁓ but when we were talking about it before the ⁓

Ashleigh Goodchild (15:39)

Yeah, cool.

Okay, awesome, awesome. ⁓ so yeah, so the reforms are basically bringing in the no grounds termination ⁓ and banning that. So the feeling on the ground about it, well actually it's been distracted because of the budget, but ⁓ but when we were talking about it before, the people are worried

about it, however.

Before The Weekend (16:02)

People are

worried about it, however, it's actually not something that we used a lot of. So to give you some context, I've probably done two no reason terminations maybe in the last five years. So but when you need to do them, you actually really need to do them. They're quite serious.

Ashleigh Goodchild (16:03)

It's actually not something that we used a lot of. So to give you some context, I've probably done two no reason terminations maybe in the last five years. So but when you need to do them, you actually really need to do them. They're quite serious. And so I think that's a problem. So what we're

going to be finding is that we ⁓ we are probably gonna have to be a lot stricter, obviously, with the applications. Our thoughts are we're probably gonna have to be very, very strict with breaches during tenancies so that we've got history.

Before The Weekend (16:22)

And so I think that's a problem. So what we're going to be finding is that we ⁓ we are probably going to have to be a lot stricter, obviously, with the applications. Our thoughts are we're probably going to have

to be very, very strict with breaches during tenancies so that we've got history should we need to ⁓ not renew the lease agreement. ⁓ and that's gonna be

Ashleigh Goodchild (16:32)

should we need to ⁓ not renew the lease agreement. ⁓ and that's gonna be really harsh for the tenants and that's that's who's gonna suffer really.

Before The Weekend (16:43)

Yeah. ⁓ I I remember when they came in here, Casey, you might be able to tell me whether this is the case. ⁓ but I I felt that when they came in, we started issuing eviction notices with the lease. So ⁓ let's say it's a six month lease, we would issue an eviction notice. I thought we went entered something where a best practice was an eviction notice the day after that six month lease, and we could always end that mutually, but ⁓ that would allow us to remove somebody from a lease. Is that is have I read that wrong?

Kasey McDonald (17:12)

I think it was more, Pete, that there was a lot of talk through the channels that that's potentially how property managers were gonna kind of handle the interpretation. I'm not too sure that it was ⁓ probably encouraged from a best practice point of view to do that. Cause it was, you know, you're sort of saying you're offering a tenancy and at the same time you're saying sorry, but we're gonna end it. ⁓ so I think it was probably more of how do we handle it, like property managers more so talking about what's the best way for us to tackle this.

Before The Weekend (17:12)

I think it was more, Pete, that there was a lot of talk through the channels that that's potentially how property managers were gonna kind of handle the interpretation. I'm not too sure that it was ⁓ probably encouraged from a best practice point of view to do that. So it was, you know, you sort of saying you're offering a tenancy. Yeah, pinch your tenants. At the same time, you're saying sorry, but we're gonna end it. ⁓ so I think it was probably more of how do we handle it? Like property managers more so talking about what's the best way for us to tackle

this.

Kasey McDonald (17:41)

So yeah, certainly not I certainly not best practice, no.

Before The Weekend (17:42)

So yeah, certainly not certainly not best practice.

⁓ Ashley, no grounds. So Pete Yeah, sorry Yeah, I was just gonna say with that, Pete, I don't think it's a matter of issuing the termination, it's the reason why you're doing it. So when we currently are ⁓ you know, in negotiations with the lease renewal, basically there are now only or there will be only reasons why you can terminate. So if the tenant's been in rent careers,

Ashleigh Goodchild (17:44)

So Pete, well Pete Yeah, I was just gonna say with that Pete, I don't think it's a matter of issuing the termination. It's the reason why you're doing it. So when we ⁓ currently are ⁓ you know, in negotiations with the lease renewal, basically there are now only or there will be only reasons why you can terminate. So if the tenant's been in rent arrears, they've breached their tenancy, will be able to go through the normal channels for for ending that tenancy and terminating through a loss ⁓ through sorry.

Kasey McDonald (17:53)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (18:06)

they've ⁓ breached their tenancy will be able to go through the normal channels for for ending that tenancy and terminating

Ashleigh Goodchild (18:12)

through it is really early this morning, through breaching a tenant for their rent and if they don't pay their rent, they get evicted. If they don't look after the property, they get breached and terminated, they can be evicted. But what I believe we won't be able to do is your lease is due to expire on the 1st of December. We're not renewing it and just not giving any reason. And if you've got a tenant who is paying their rent, looking after the property, ⁓ then what are you you can't just

Before The Weekend (18:12)

through a loss ⁓ through sorry through it is really early this morning through breaching a tenant for their rent and if they don't pay their rent they get evicted. If they don't look after the property they get breached and terminated they can be evicted. But what I believe we won't be able to do is your lease is due to expire on the first of December. We're not renewing it and just not giving any reason. And if you've got a tenant who is paying their rent looking after the property

Ashleigh Goodchild (18:34)

end the lease. And that's what the problem is. And there's reasons why you would end the lease for a tenant that is

Before The Weekend (18:35)

then what do you you can't just end the lease. And that's what the problem is. And there's reasons why you would end the lease

Ashleigh Goodchild (18:41)

Paying their rent, looking after the property. ⁓ but there can be, like to give you an example, we had a really high-risk tenancy, a tenant who would be on our doorstep every single week, threatening current affair. She would, you know, she could trip over something and just say that she hurt herself and then want to sue you. There were behavioral issues that were a real high risk for the agency. And

Before The Weekend (18:41)

for a tenant that is paying their rent, looking after the property. ⁓ but there can be like to give you an example, we had a really high risk tenancy, a tenant who would be on our doorstep every single week threatening current affair. She would, you know, she could trip over something and just say that she hurt herself and then want to sue you. There was behavioral issues that were a real high risk.

Kasey McDonald (19:01)

Mm.

Ashleigh Goodchild (19:04)

if I can share that story, the actual owner, I remember saying to him, we need to get this person out. And he said to me,

Before The Weekend (19:04)

For the agency. And if I can share that story, the actual owner, I remember saying to him, We

need to get this person out. And he said to me, Ash, she pays a rent, she looks after the property. Sounds like a you problem, you know. Like he doesn't really care all of that. And when ⁓ he went to the property, and when this lady opened up her dressing gown naked and he could see what we were talking about, this is a true story. ⁓ he caught us up.

Ashleigh Goodchild (19:10)

Ash, she pays a rent, she looks after the property. Sounds like a you problem, you know, like he doesn't really care all of that. And when ⁓ he went to the property, and when this lady opened up her dressing gown naked and he could see what we were talking about, this is a true story. ⁓ he caught us up and was like, actually, yeah,

I see what you mean. Because she could claim anything. There that that was the situation that we needed to terminate with no reason. Cause I'm not gonna say the reason we're terminating you is.

Before The Weekend (19:30)

Like actually, yeah, I see what you mean. Because she could claim anything. Then that that was a situation that we needed to terminate with no reason. Because I'm not

gonna say the reason we're

Ashleigh Goodchild (19:39)

You're a nutcase.

Before The Weekend (19:41)

you as you're in that case. Yeah. Do you yeah do you feel as though what do you think the the feeling on the ground is with regards to the tenants in this scenario?

Kasey McDonald (19:43)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (19:52)

I'm not really hearing much from a tenant side to be honest. So I don't think that they've there's

Ashleigh Goodchild (19:50)

I'm not really hearing much from a tenants side to be honest. So I don't think that they've there's I personally I've heard no talk from the

tenants about it.

Before The Weekend (19:59)

I personally I've

Well if if that's the case, why why would a government step in and introduce this? I mean, there are the reforms that come as part of this, but this is the big talking point, right? Why would they do that?

Ashleigh Goodchild (20:09)

They're

Before The Weekend (20:11)

They're trying to make things fairer and more more in line, ⁓ and just a fairer balance. And who who's our audience on on today? Is our audience the

Ashleigh Goodchild (20:10)

to make things fairer and more more in line, and just a fairer balance. And who who's our audience on on today? Is our audience the public or is the audience the real estate agents?

Before The Weekend (20:21)

Probably the real estate

Ashleigh Goodchild (20:21)

Okay,

Kasey McDonald (20:22)

Real

Before The Weekend (20:22)

Okay, okay. So

Ashleigh Goodchild (20:23)

So the thoughts are that

Kasey McDonald (20:22)

agent. Mm-hmm.

Ashleigh Goodchild (20:25)

they are trying to make things fairer, but

Before The Weekend (20:25)

The thoughts are that they are trying to

make things fairer, but the way that I see it is that it's like the same imbalance with parents and children, employers and employees, landlords and and tenants. And I'm not suggesting that it should be a big range, but I am suggesting that there has to be a little bit there has to be a little bit of imbalance. And I agree with all the things the government's changed. I agree with that our change from rent increases from six months to twelve months, that was best practice. We did that anyway.

Ashleigh Goodchild (20:28)

The way that I see it is that it's like the same imbalance with parents and children, employers and employees, landlords and and tenants. And I'm not suggesting that it should be a big range, but I am suggesting that there has to be a little bit, there has to be a little bit of imbalance. And I agree with all the things the government's changed. I agree with ⁓ that our change from rent increases from six months to 12 months, that was best practice. We did that anyway. I actually agree with pets being allowed

in homes. I agree with minor modifications.

Before The Weekend (20:55)

I actually agree with pets being allowed

in homes. I agree with minor modifications. I agree with all those things. And and ultimately what I don't agree, and I think this is where it's come in, there are probably more private landlords, then this is probably going to weed out those private landlords, which is which is good and they shouldn't be doing these things. But we would have private landlords who would put a tenant in for six months and then vacate them for no reason. Good tenants after six months because they want to put another tenant in with a higher rent. So just because they couldn't do the rent increase.

Ashleigh Goodchild (20:57)

I agree with all those things and and ultimately what I don't agree, and I think this is where it's come in, there are probably more private landlords, and this is probably going to weed out those private landlords, which is which is good, and they shouldn't be doing these things. But we would have private landlords who would put a tenant in for six months and then vacate them for no reason, good tenants after six months because they want to put another tenant in with a higher rent. So just because they couldn't do the rent increase, they just

Kasey McDonald (21:22)

Yeah.

Ashleigh Goodchild (21:23)

passing these tenants over

and that's not fair and that should be that should be penalised. But I feel like there's ways around that. So I understand in Queensland the rent increases with the property. So I feel that that would have been a better change

Before The Weekend (21:24)

they're just passing these tenants over and that's not fair and that should be that should be penalised. But I feel like there's ways around that. So I understand in Queensland the rent increases with the property. So

Ashleigh Goodchild (21:35)

do.

Before The Weekend (21:35)

I

Do you feel as though this is legislation for the poor operators, not necessarily even real estate agents, but the the the people who are not doing the right thing. Yeah are we legislating for stupid again?

Ashleigh Goodchild (21:47)

One hundred

Before The Weekend (21:48)

It's really disappointing. Every time I hear that, you know, there's more red tape and people don't understand that that smashes property managers. And I'm sure there are some tenant advocacy bodies out there all have a go at me and say, Well, we had tenant X and it it it you know, this is why that came in. I I fully get that. I'm not trying to downplay the plight of the tenant, especially after watching my daughter ⁓ hi you went on for that, you can listen to it later.

But in in in Melbourne that was quite difficult. But I I just get the feeling that we sometimes we go a little bit overboard with regulation rather than ⁓ maybe education best

you know. So absolutely. That's a really great segue, Pete. So I've got a question for Ash because I know what you'll do also not only obviously do you have your own agency, but of course you do consulting and training in the industry and an incredible thought leader in the property management space. So for me, you know

Kasey McDonald (22:21)

absolutely. That's a really great segue, Pete. So I've got a question for Ash because I know what you'll do also, not only obviously do you have your own agency, but of course you do consulting and training in the industry and an incredible thought leader in the property management space. So for me, you know, what

what's some tips that you think that PMs should be doing to educate the owners and the tenants on these new reforms coming in? You know, not just particularly

Before The Weekend (22:38)

What what's some tips that you think that PMs should be doing to ab you know educate the owners and the tenants on these new reforms coming in? You know, not just particularly,

Kasey McDonald (22:47)

I guess this core one we're talking about today, but all of them about what they actually mean and the impact.

Before The Weekend (22:47)

I guess, this core one we're talking about today, but all of them about what they actually mean and the impact. The first thing would absolutely to be very confident and positive about any changes. I think the worst thing we can do is by

Ashleigh Goodchild (22:51)

The first thing would absolutely to be very confident and positive about any changes. I think the worst thing we can do is by putting more fear in

in landlords

Before The Weekend (23:02)

putting more fear in in landlords and and in tenants as well. So I would always go to them with a positive spin, ⁓ and creating that confidence first. So ⁓ I would hope that they are getting educated by their property manager directly so that they're not having to fall to Chat GPT and, you know, the internet to source all this information. ⁓ really trying to get in, even if it's a little bit too early to give them

Ashleigh Goodchild (23:02)

and and in tenants as well. So I would always go to them with a positive spin ⁓ and creating that confidence first. So ⁓ I would hope that they are getting educated by their property manager directly so that they're not having to fall to Chat GPT and you know the internet to source all this information. ⁓ really trying to get in, even if it's a little bit too early to give them full context of what the changes mean.

Before The Weekend (23:29)

Full context of what the changes mean, giving them just a little bit of taste to say, listen, you might have heard some noise around this new reform coming in, just letting you know we're under control, this is what we're doing, we'll be in touch when there's more information. Even little things like that, I think, will go a long way. And there's always, I think, like for me, if I was educating my clients, I'd be saying, listen, in the last five years, I've only done two no ground terminations.

Ashleigh Goodchild (23:29)

giving them just a little bit of taste to say, listen, you might have heard some noise around this new reform coming in, just letting you know we're under control. This is what we're doing. We'll be in touch when there's more information. Even little things like that I think will go a long way. And there's always, I think like for me, if I was educating my clients, I'd be saying, listen,

In the last five years, I've only done two no ground terminations. ⁓ and so it's not actually

a a big thing. It's not something that happens all the time, but this is our plan. What we're gonna do is we're gonna make sure that when we ⁓ you know, scrutinize the application, we're gonna do this. When we have situations during tenancy, we're gonna do this. And we're pretty confident that ⁓ that we're gonna have it all under control. That's the best that you can do.

Before The Weekend (23:54)

⁓ and so it's not actually a a big thing. It's not something that happens all the time, but this is our plan. What we're gonna do is we're gonna make sure that when we ⁓ you know scrutinize the application, we're gonna do this. When we have situations during tenancy, we're gonna do this. And we're pretty confident that that we're gonna have it all under

Yeah, the proactive communication and the consistency around the education is always key when legislation changes, right? Because to your point.

Kasey McDonald (24:12)

the proactive communication and the consistency around the education is always key when legislation changes, right? Cause to your point, Google

Before The Weekend (24:21)

Google and ChatGPT will tell them everything that they really want to hear, but it's not exactly how it might actually play out,

Kasey McDonald (24:21)

and Chat GPT will tell them everything that they really want to hear, but it's not exactly how it might actually play out, right?

Ashleigh Goodchild (24:27)

And if as property

Before The Weekend (24:27)

right? Yeah. And if as property managers are not confident ⁓ with what the changes are, then the best thing that you can actually do is refer a good source for them to read further. So that would look like ⁓ you know, you've heard that there's some noise. Here's a great article you might like to read to find out more information. So because there are people that aren't confident on

Ashleigh Goodchild (24:28)

managers I'm not confident ⁓ with what the changes are, then the best thing that you can actually do is refer a a good source for them to read further. So that would look like ⁓ you know, you've heard that there's some noise. Here's a great article you might like to read to find out more information. So because there are people that aren't confident on giving that advice straight away. So just refer them to an accountant, refer them to a website where they can get the proper info.

Kasey McDonald (24:47)

Great tip.

Before The Weekend (24:50)

giving that advice straight away. So just refer them to an accountant, refer them

Kasey McDonald (24:54)

Fantastic.

Before The Weekend (24:55)

Great advice, Ashley. Thank you so much for joining. I'm sorry to get you out of bed so early. You can go back now. I guess but as always invaluable. If people want to find you, where do they go?

Ashleigh Goodchild (25:00)

Thank you.

Before The Weekend (25:05)

⁓ well you can I'm pretty Google, so but I'd love people connecting with me on

Ashleigh Goodchild (25:04)

Well, you can I'm pretty Google so but I love people connecting with me on LinkedIn and Ashley Good Chad would be amazing.

Kasey McDonald (25:10)

Fantastic. And we're not going to let you go, Ash, though, just before we do ask you that budget question we know you've been doing all the research so so so thumbs up or thumbs down, like it, don't like it.

Before The Weekend (25:10)

Amazing. You have a great. We're not gonna let you go, Ash, though, just before we do ask you that budget question. We know you've been talking about Budget. Thumbs Thumbs up or thumbs down. like it, don't like

Ashleigh Goodchild (25:22)

I

Before The Weekend (25:22)

it.

Ashleigh Goodchild (25:22)

actually like it for investors. I don't like it for the industry.

Before The Weekend (25:22)

I actually like it for investors. I

So that's another fence sitter. ⁓ from my from my perspective. We've we've had two fence sitters on the

Kasey McDonald (25:29)

Yeah. ⁓

Before The Weekend (25:32)

On the call. Very good, Ash. Thank you so much for joining. ⁓ you have a great week. Great to see you.

Ashleigh Goodchild (25:36)

My pleasure. You too.

Kasey McDonald (25:37)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (25:38)

My pleasure. Happy Friday, Ash.

Ashleigh Goodchild (25:38)

You too, bye.

Kasey McDonald (25:38)

Happy Friday, Ash.

Thanks,

Before The Weekend (25:40)

All right, that's our two guest artists ⁓ over. We've got more stuff to talk about though, right? Casey, what are what are we on to now?

Yeah, ⁓ I think it's absolutely key, Pete, that there's been so many articles and from, you know, all different states just around professional

Kasey McDonald (25:48)

⁓ I think it's absolutely key, Pete, that there's been so many articles and from, you know, all different states just around professional conduct. And I

Before The Weekend (25:56)

And I guess now that maybe the consumers are probably losing a little trust in us as real estate

Kasey McDonald (25:56)

now that maybe the consumers are probably losing a little trust in us as real estate practitioners.

Before The Weekend (26:02)

Did they ever have it? Did they ever have it, Casey? Yeah, you know, I think we've had, you

Kasey McDonald (26:02)

So ⁓ for me, I think ⁓ yeah, you know, I think we've had, you know.

⁓ unfortunately those that have been ⁓ loss of license due to inappropriate pricing. We've got workplace behaviors, we've got privacy. I I think, you know, there's lots there ⁓ in terms of how our our standards and how we're operating. yeah, Miss Kondak, we definitely need to have a quick fire chat on what this looks like for us as we move forward with l many changes going

Before The Weekend (26:07)

⁓ unfortunately those that have been ⁓ loss of license due to inappropriate pricing. We've got workplace behaviours, we've got privacy. I I think, you know, there's lots there ⁓ in terms of how our our standards and how we're

Yeah, Miss Kondak, we definitely need to have a quick fire chat on what this looks like for us as we move forward with l many

Kasey McDonald (26:28)

in our space.

Before The Weekend (26:28)

going on in Space.

Well, obviously we had the really prominent one from a couple of weeks back and it received a lot of attention. And j you know, if you're joining us for the first time, which you will be 'cause this is our first episode, but we're not going to mention the names of these people. I I feel like it gives them air, if you know what I mean. But there was a really prominent one that went down in New South Wales, ⁓ you know, which had been

Kasey McDonald (26:44)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (26:50)

I I think the industry had known about it quite a long time. And you know, without actually talking about that specific bloke and and what went down there, I I felt I was disappointed for by some I was let down. The industry was let down by some of the people around him. Would you would you agree with that? like

are you what do you should take on it? Yeah, I I think there's people also within our industry that was accepting the

Kasey McDonald (27:08)

Absolutely. Yeah. I I think there's people also within our industry that was accepting the behaviour.

Before The Weekend (27:15)

and whilst there was ⁓ some calling it out and ⁓ you know, wanting it to be investigated, I also think that, you know, it it took longer than it should have for this to be brought to the surface and to be handled.

Kasey McDonald (27:15)

and whilst there was ⁓ some calling it out and ⁓ you know, wanting it to be investigated, I also think that, you know, it it took longer than it should have for this to be brought to the surface and to be handled.

Before The Weekend (27:28)

Well, ⁓ I notice and and I know it may not be part of this particular point, but another talking point that we have ⁓ is New South Wales under quoting crackdown. And yeah.

Kasey McDonald (27:38)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (27:39)

draw a parallel because they're coming out and they're gonna they're saying we're gonna crack down on underquoting. One of the issues with that prominent New South Wales bloke was underquoting. And if you look you know, if you fast forward and industry ban, okay, ten years, that's the harshest ever seen. Great. the the fine, the quote on that that particular fellow was only thirty three thousand and and there were weeks where he would make triple that. So he you know he's kind of laughing all the way to the bank. I think that side of it was incredibly soft.

Kasey McDonald (27:48)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (28:07)

Now, if I'm a New South Wales agent and I'm actively participating and underquoting, am I right to go, Well, come at me, New South Wales? What's the worst? You know, come at me, Office of Fair Trading, New South Wales, what are you gonna what's the worst you're gonna do? If that's the the if that's the penalty that you met it out to this guy, what could be the worst thing that I'm gonna get? Like a one grand fine and a one year ban? Like Is it is did the f did the did the fine meet the the the the crime?

Kasey McDonald (28:34)

look, I think I think ⁓ you know, everyone's gonna have their own opinion on that. Mine personally, Pete, is that it didn't. I mean, you know, I saw stuff coming out after around, you know, that he there's Rolex watches on his wrist and of course bragging about that they cost more than the fine that he got. So, you know, I don't even know that that person themselves probably took it ⁓ as serious as what i it is. And unfortunately now it's then created a stigma, I think, that

Before The Weekend (28:35)

I think I think ⁓ you know, everyone's gonna have their own opinion on that. Mine personally, Pete, is that it didn't. I mean, you know, I saw stuff coming out after around, you know, that it there's Rolex watches on his wrist and of course bragging about that they cost more than the fine that he got. So you know, I don't even know that that person themselves probably took it ⁓ as serious as what i it is. And unfortunately now it's then created a stigma, I think,

that

Kasey McDonald (29:02)

Many of us in the industry may be like this. And I think that's also a very true unst that's a very untrue statement, right?

Before The Weekend (29:02)

Many of us in the industry may be like this. And I think that's also a very true and state, that's a very untrue statement, right?

Kasey McDonald (29:09)

here, we're now seeing that more and more ⁓ are being exposed ⁓ for misconduct. ⁓ that, you know, we've got another in New South Wales that is being told they're not fit and proper to hold a license. But what does it actually mean? ⁓ it's around inappropriate behavior, but

Before The Weekend (29:09)

from here, we're now seeing that more and more ⁓ are being exposed ⁓ for misconduct. ⁓ that, you know, we've got another in New South Wales that is being told they're not fit and proper to hold a license. But what does it actually mean? ⁓ it's around inappropriate behavior,

but

Kasey McDonald (29:27)

Unfortunately,

Before The Weekend (29:27)

Unfortunately, because it's still going through the courts, you know, we can't source any other information about that. So yeah, I think our reputational risk ⁓ is what is becoming ⁓ I guess, under scrutiny here. I

Kasey McDonald (29:28)

because it's still going through the courts, you know, we can't source any other information about that. So yeah, I think our reputational risk is what is becoming ⁓ I guess, under scrutiny here. I think.

Before The Weekend (29:42)

yeah. And it's kind of, you know, the regulators are looking at things, things are becoming more public. And so, you know, for me, I'm putting it out there to the business owners and those that are practicing in our

Kasey McDonald (29:42)

yeah. And it's kind of, you know, the regulators are looking at things, things are becoming more public. And so, you know, for me, I'm putting it out there to the business owners and those that are practicing in our industry.

Before The Weekend (29:52)

industry.

Kasey McDonald (29:52)

To

actually take a really good look about, you know, how are they managing ⁓ internally? What are their compliance processes? What training are they doing? And this isn't always, I fully get it. I've had a business myself just like you, right? We're there to

Before The Weekend (29:53)

To actually take a really good look about, you know, how are they managing ⁓ internally? What are their compliance processes? What training are they doing? And this isn't always, I fully get it. I've had a business myself just like

Kasey McDonald (30:06)

money.

Before The Weekend (30:06)

right? We're there to make

Kasey McDonald (30:08)

at the end of the day, we're also there ⁓ to help those consumers and the people, humans, to buy and sell and rent homes.

Before The Weekend (30:09)

But at the end of the day, we're also there ⁓ to help those consumers and the people, humans, to buy and sell and

rent homes. ⁓ and so we need to be, we need to have morals and ethics.

Kasey McDonald (30:18)

⁓ and so we need to be we need to have morals and ethics.

Before The Weekend (30:23)

⁓ and I think that we need to probably sometimes take a look at ourselves and go, as people are we actually operating

Kasey McDonald (30:23)

and I think that we need to probably sometimes take a look at ourselves and go, as people are, we're actually operating in that way.

Before The Weekend (30:29)

in that way.

And why like I I think a a lot of the fear factor, like, you know, one of the things that really annoyed me is that there's a franchise group that tolerated the

of the New South Wales guy.

Kasey McDonald (30:37)

Yeah. That knew about it. Yeah.

Before The Weekend (30:39)

for so for so long that had reports. I I know they had reports filtered through to them. And it was only, you know, when it became evident that that the Office of Air Trading was going to step in that that they parted ways with this person and

You know, from without without, you know, throwing stones at that franchise, I imagine it would have been p particularly difficult to convince a franchise group to remove someone that's such a high performer. But I think you and I have discussed this before within our own businesses and the instances that we have taken out or where where there has been a cultural issue, you know, sort of festering w what that does to the rest of the staff around you. Like, you know, this guy gets

favored f favor favored treatment because he's earning a lot of money and how does that look to the other franchisees out there and also from the perspective that you know once you take them out in in my experience you watch a whole heap of people lift around ⁓ you know where they weren't before where they

they might have been suppressed. So you

Kasey McDonald (31:36)

Yeah. Absolutely.

Before The Weekend (31:38)

absolutely I guess we are asking, you know, we we're suggesting, if I could paraphrase that people have a bit of

intestinal fortitude and courage when it comes to stepping up a against your best salesperson if that's what it means to protect your brand, to protect your franchise, to protect the industry as a as a greater whole, I I feel would you is it is that your take on it

yeah, absolutely. I I'm with you 100% on that. I think you know, there's there's also articles out where people have had they've been very fearful to do that, thinking, now I'm gonna lose that best person. And what does that mean for my the income coming into my

Kasey McDonald (31:59)

absolutely. I I'm with you a hundred percent on that. I think you know, there's there's also articles out where people have had they've been very fearful to do that, of thinking, now I'm gonna lose that best person and what does that mean for my the income coming into my business?

⁓ but I I I think absolutely you need to take a look at, I guess, the overall picture. And you're right, you know, by this person actually removing the that kind of high performance out, it then lifted everyone and then more holistically

Before The Weekend (32:14)

⁓ but I I I think absolutely you need to take a look at I guess the overall picture. And you're right, you know, by this person actually removing the that kind of high performance out, it then lifted everyone and then more holistically

Kasey McDonald (32:28)

it the business was making more money because everyone was increasing their GCI. The culture had improved and it kind of removed this politics and toxicity and chaos ⁓ out of their business. So yeah, I think ⁓ you know, we all just need to kind of take a look

Before The Weekend (32:28)

it the business was making more money because everyone was increasing their GCI, the culture had improved and it kind of removed this politics and toxicity and chaos ⁓ out of their business. So yeah, I think ⁓ you know, we all just need to kind of take a look.

Kasey McDonald (32:44)

and have a bit of

Before The Weekend (32:44)

and

Kasey McDonald (32:44)

I

Kasey McDonald (32:46)

Mm.

Before The Weekend (32:46)

⁓

Antony Mercarella is joining. we should put some happy music on for

Kasey McDonald (32:50)

Absolutely.

Before The Weekend (32:51)

Be following.

Antonia Mercorella (32:53)

Ooh hello, that's all very formal.

Before The Weekend (32:56)

Because Welcome Antonio.

Kasey McDonald (32:57)

You wouldn't have thought that for the two of us, right?

Antonia Mercorella (33:00)

No.

Welcome. Did you put your best cap on for me? That's great.

Before The Weekend (33:04)

I did, I did. I got some music for you

too. Breathe Can you hear our music?

Kasey McDonald (33:08)

yeah. ⁓ well.

Antonia Mercorella (33:10)

Can we just start it like that? I God, I hope you're not

Before The Weekend (33:11)

Very,

Antonia Mercorella (33:14)

⁓ just about we've got an event today, a business broker event across the road. So I'm just in a lobby at ⁓ two hundred Creek Street, just literally in the middle of a lobby. Yeah.

Before The Weekend (33:24)

Very nice. Very nice.

You go you get all the fun gigs.

Kasey McDonald (33:27)

Yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (33:27)

I know.

Yeah, something like that.

Kasey McDonald (33:30)

And and on this fabulous Friday you get to join us.

Antonia Mercorella (33:33)

Woo woo Woo.

Kasey McDonald (33:34)

Phew.

Before The Weekend (33:34)

And I've

seen quite a lot of Antonia recently. I think she's sick of me.

Antonia Mercorella (33:38)

Never, never. Yeah.

Before The Weekend (33:40)

You just say that for the podcast. Hey,

Kasey McDonald (33:44)

Ha

Before The Weekend (33:45)

so we we're

talking about a few topics. Yeah, as I said to you earlier, we'd gone down to Victoria, we spoke to Haley Mitchell about the one form. They're actually having quite a lot of trouble with that, ⁓ which is interesting. Haley is saying that they're having a lot of trouble representing the owner and the owners for the acting in that fiduciary interest, really, in vetting people a given

Antonia Mercorella (33:46)

Okay.

Mm.

Kasey McDonald (33:59)

Mm.

Before The Weekend (34:04)

Too little information. And so Haley was saying that ⁓ through CAV they're working to improve that form so that they get better at vetting information. But so like some of the things that they highlighted were they can't they can't contact the employer to see if they're actually employed, which is a problem. ⁓ they there was another one, they can't ⁓ can't seek car registration, which is a problem when they're going to body corporates. ⁓ there are there are a whole heap of things that they couldn't track down. The pets is a

Antonia Mercorella (34:14)

Mm.

Mm.

Kasey McDonald (34:27)

Yeah, the owner's corpse.

Antonia Mercorella (34:28)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (34:32)

bit of one, they can't ask for information about pets. So ⁓ I mean I don't we haven't gone down that form that that path yet here in Queensland, have we? We we don't have a singular prescribed form. What's your opinion on that?

Antonia Mercorella (34:37)

Mm.

Yeah, it's really interesting. W we we actually do now have a prescribed tenancy application form, but I think the key dare I say, difference is that we have a we have a we have a good positive relationship with both the Office of Fair Trading and the Residential Tenancies Authority. We did see that our government also put out a prescribed form that had some problems, and really quickly we were able to ⁓

get back to the table with them and explain why some of those deficiencies were causing some practical issues. Often what happens, this isn't none of this is new. It's that difference between lawmakers, ⁓ and yeah you know, I'll I'll call out that that I am a lawyer by by trade, but it's that difference between ⁓ when you're when you're sitting down at a at a desktop, so to speak, at a desk.

and you're thinking about what sort of information is it reasonable to ask a prospective tenant to provide? and there's two parts to that. You know, one part is that the point of the application form is to enable the property manager or the lessor to to determine is this tenant a ⁓ likely to be a good applicant? And there's really two key things we look for: do they have the financial capacity to meet ⁓

Before The Weekend (35:53)

Is this if they have the three ⁓

Antonia Mercorella (36:02)

the obligations, the payment obligations under the tenancy agreement, and is it likely that they will look after after the property. ⁓ and there's certain areas where it's really easy to justify what you're asking for. And then there's areas where there's real shades of grey, right? And so if you don't if you don't involve a property

Before The Weekend (36:02)

the obligations, the payment obligations under the tenancy agreement, and is it likely that those would not get a problem? So if you don't if you're a disband

You might not understand why a question is so important.

Antonia Mercorella (36:21)

manager in that conversation, you might not understand why a question is very legitimate. and it reminds me a bit of a recent ⁓ interview we did ⁓

The Privacy Commissioner came out and made a ruling against a particular tech provider of v very similar to what we're talking about, where there was the the privacy commissioner said it's really unreasonable to ask for this range of information. and and then when I was getting interviewed about it, the journey was like, Yeah, that

Kasey McDonald (36:39)

Mm-hmm.

Antonia Mercorella (36:49)

seems ridiculous. Why would you need A B C D? And then it was a great opportunity to explain.

Before The Weekend (36:49)

Yeah, that's particularly why would you need A B C D and then if there's a great opportunity

with claim you keep the fees recent the the car rental is a great so we have ⁓ activity types of information you would ask for at a financial level it's a really expression at least to ⁓

Antonia Mercorella (36:56)

It it's for these reasons. The the car regio is a great example, for instance. But also we had a situation where they were limiting the types of information you could ask for at a financial level. And so really it was originally limited to ⁓ just pay slips. Now that's fine if you've got someone who's employed,

but that's not always the case. You might get an applicant who's an independent contractor.

Who's not employed and can't give you a pay slip, you can also find that not everyone's employed. Some people might be on ⁓ centerlink benefits, or you might have a situation where someone's a student and they're an international student, for instance, and they're not employed. And so being able to look for an alternative source, e.g., your bank account balance, is really legitimate. And it's only when regulators

Kasey McDonald (37:24)

Mm.

Antonia Mercorella (37:47)

sit down with the property management community

Before The Weekend (37:48)

Sit down with the property management.

Antonia Mercorella (37:50)

where you can actually then explain, well, A, I've got a fiduciary obligation to satisfy. I've got to make sure that I'm properly reviewing and assessing this applicant. So I can tick my contractual responsibilities and and statutory responsibilities as well. And then obviously that needs to be balanced against what is reasonable. Because I think look to be fair

Kasey McDonald (38:08)

Yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (38:15)

I think there has been perhaps a process where there's been information that's been asked for that is difficult to justify why it's warranted and why it's legitimate. So I think involving tenants in that process is equally important, right? ⁓ but but but but I guess what I'm saying in in summary is that as we keep saying to these regulators, please include us in this conversation so we can give you the real world context and explain why.

Kasey McDonald (38:29)

Mm.

Antonia Mercorella (38:43)

⁓ some of those questions need to be there.

Before The Weekend (38:46)

Can I ask you, like through that, you talk about your relationship or the relationship that the RERQ has with the Office of Fair Trading? How how do you feel about

The the ban that was handed down to the real estate agent in New South Wales recently and the the corresponding fine. What what are your thoughts on that?

Antonia Mercorella (39:02)

Yeah, I think as as as as someone who's been leading a peak body now for for many, many years, it's it's a daily sport for me to have to deal with people's perceptions and criticisms of of real estate agents. and I I I know that a lot of the reports we see about real estate agents are

It it's about the exception. It's not the norm. ⁓ I wouldn't still be doing this gig if I thought that bad conduct was the norm in in real estate. Is there some bad conduct? Of course there is, as there is in every occupation or profession. so what I would say is it's always incredibly disappointing to me when I see a real estate agent.

Kasey McDonald (39:24)

Yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (39:47)

doing the wrong thing and ending up splattered all over newspapers and all over social media. Because when that happens, what it does is it just creates this stereotype that every, or not every, but most real estate agents behave that way. So I find that really disappointing. And but what I will say is I like when regulators actually take

action against against bad actors. That that's my honest truth. In fact, we meet with the Office of Fair Trading every quarter. and the reason we do that is we want to be a really proactive peak body. We want to say, tell us what you're seeing. If you're identifying emerging trends and and bad behavior, tell us what it is so that we as the peak body can do our job. We can put out educational

material, we can we can warn against that kind of conduct, we can work out what we need to do. I can I can perhaps contact that that that person or those agents who are doing that those things and use my influence to to shape and change their conduct. And so but the other thing that that I am frequently doing is when I hear of an agent who is not doing the wrong thing unintentionally because we can all make an honest mistake.

but where we see an agent consistently and very intentionally breaching the law, I actually want our regulator to go after that agent because it is incredibly frustrating to the many other real estate agents who are doing the right thing, complying with the law, following our best practice guidelines and saying, I want to belong to a profession that I'm proud of.

⁓ and so when they see that regulators don't take action against those who are v are very openly sometimes doing the wrong thing, it frustrates them. So so you know, we're all for the regulator ⁓ using their time and resources to to get on top of that.

Before The Weekend (41:47)

Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (41:48)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (41:50)

And and I get I get that. I suppose we all are. ⁓ I th I think a regulator going after an agent who's done the wrong thing is great. ⁓ New South Wales Office of Air Trading this week are are clamping down on underquoting. And look, it's probably in the in the wake of that, and we should be taking it seriously. But I feel that most of the industry looks at the yes, the ten year ban was a record ban, the fine, the fine is

probably what's creating the most outrage, less than a week of his wage. you know, even though it's thirty-three thousand dollars. ⁓ I think a lot of the industry are looking at the Office of Fair Trading coming after under quotas at the moment, going, Well, you just had the biggest one we've ever seen in in some time. Allegedly, this is alleged. no, I actually think it's proven now, but we ha you just had the biggest one. And really the implications of that for him are not not that bad. He's not sanctioned, you know, he

Kasey McDonald (42:23)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (42:43)

he's going to come back in another area. D how do we how do we then look at the New South Wales Office of Fair Trading and go, we should take you seriously in this

Kasey McDonald (42:50)

Yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (42:51)

Yeah, that's a good it's a good question. I mean, first of all, I think a I think a decade ban it's pretty significant. I know there's arguments that the particular actor we're talking about may have been banned forever. I think and I I'm gonna be careful about this because as a lawyer I I don't want to prejudice any any anything that might come ⁓ in the future. I think ⁓ there's the fine that Office of Fair Trading have imposed.

there's also potential civil action that may follow that may well be a lot more financially significant. and I think I think consistency is key. ⁓ that that's that particular that particular agent has attracted an enormous amount of attention. If we started to see the Office of Fair Trading or the equivalent all around Australia consistently.

taking action against bad actors, then I think we'd really start to shift move the dial and see a shift in in behaviour. So consistency is important.

Kasey McDonald (43:44)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (43:49)

Agreed, Casey. We've got like four or five different ones sitting in front of us that we could be discussing this week. We're trying to avoid them. But you know, we've got one down in Tasmania. There's a guy in the Central Coast. ⁓

Kasey McDonald (43:49)

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, and I think in the past we've

also seen you re and recently there's been several property managers who were still fraudulently you know, monies from trust accounts, right? and yeah, so I think, you know, there's this this behavior has been going on for a long time in our industry, but I totally agree it's the exception, it's not the rule. And there are many of us, myself included.

Antonia Mercorella (44:24)

Hmm.

Kasey McDonald (44:26)

⁓ who absolutely love this industry. I I wouldn't and having done so for 27, 28 years. Now I'm sharing my age. but I wouldn't have I wouldn't have been in the and remained if I didn't love it and what it generally can do. you know, the fact that you get to meet people and the the property. So there's so much about it that we should love. And I think just as humans, we need to probably take a little bit of accountability of our own behaviors. in

Before The Weekend (44:35)

I wouldn't have all and that property, so there's much about it. But I just assume it's an easy problem to take a little bit of account of a little bit about our own behavior. it's how we

Antonia Mercorella (44:29)

Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (44:52)

in how we operate,

Before The Weekend (44:53)

operate.

Kasey McDonald (44:54)

principals who are running businesses now just probably need to take the time to just take a little step back and check how are our businesses operating, how are our people performing, what are they saying, what are those conversations look like? Yeah. How do we act? Yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (44:56)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (45:03)

Okay,

Antonia Mercorella (45:04)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (45:08)

how do we act?

Antonia Mercorella (45:08)

I couldn't agree with you more, Haley. I KC, I think I'm sorry,

I'm referring to Haley because you mentioned Haley before. I think ⁓ I think it's a privilege to to work in real estate. I really do. I think where ⁓ you know, the community is involved in managing or selling the most valuable asset that most people own. And you talk about fiddling with trust accounts, there's a reason we call them trust accounts.

Kasey McDonald (45:12)

Yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (45:33)

you know, the word trust is really important. And I think that is ⁓ look, there's a lot of sins, but that is probably the most significant sin when you are taking money that does not belong to you. and obviously that is that is always the number one priority for for for regulators around the country. But I I think you're right, and we've got to be careful about just expecting the regulator to do all of the work, to be really clear.

Before The Weekend (45:51)

The regular it is I I think the right we want to be careful about just wearing

Antonia Mercorella (46:01)

We, the REIQ and peak bodies around the country, we've got a really important role to play. But Casey, you mentioned principles.

Before The Weekend (46:02)

the regular the REI and the round operating wall, but be able to do

Antonia Mercorella (46:09)

principles have a role to play. But even even just when we work with someone who's doing the wrong thing, I think we've got to have courage to call out crappy behaviour and you know, expecting the regulator to be the one that's

Before The Weekend (46:19)

Regulator stuff

Antonia Mercorella (46:22)

You've got be realistic. Regulators have limited resources like the rest of us do. So it's got to be a collective effort and it's got to be that ⁓ we're all squarely focused on how we can be raising the bar. And that bar where it needs to be changes all the time. What was acceptable a decade ago, what was acceptable five years ago, is not acceptable today, right? Community standards

Before The Weekend (46:23)

that three things like the rest of the service. So it's got to be actually like the best. We're focused on how the race area.

Kasey McDonald (46:47)

Mm-hmm.

Antonia Mercorella (46:47)

change, expectations change. So we've got to be evolving with that.

Kasey McDonald (46:51)

Yeah, absolutely agree.

Before The Weekend (46:51)

Yep. ⁓

I have two more questions for you. One of them is, look, I know you've been running around your state like a chook with its head chopped off. Maybe that's a bad analogy, but you've been running around telling well, educating your agents on their AML CTF obligations and thank thank you for that. I think there are a lot of Queenslanders that are very grateful, even though it's such a crappy topic.

What what are you what are your messages to somebody who doesn't know anything about AML and CTF now for whatever reason?

Antonia Mercorella (47:20)

All right. Well, it's not too late, but you do need to get your head out of the sand. you there's lots of educational resources out there to start to understand it. You've got to get ready for enrolment. That's already opened. Having said that, you have got ⁓ a few more months to get that done until the end of July is the absolute deadline on that. what I would say is it's a really significant reform, ⁓ very significant. It will add

⁓ it will add expense and it will suck up time. And so ⁓ I think it's really important for real estate principals who are running businesses to understand what's the commercial model, how am I going to am I going to simply absorb this cost, which is pretty significant, or how am I going to pass it on? What's the model look like? and you've also got to, it's not just a matter of the principal.

wrapping his or her his or her head around it. You've got to educate your entire team who touch ⁓ and interact with AML and you've got to pick your AML compliance officer. So you've really got to start thinking about it. Create a checklist and and just do it in a methodical fashion. But you know, build a commercial model and then over time as you learn more about what is the actual ⁓ what does it add to my

What does it add to my bottom line expense wise? How ⁓ that might need to evolve. And and look, I think it's gonna be a little bit of suck it and see. It's all still hasn't officially kicked off yet. Obviously starts on the first of July. ⁓ so the first 12 months will be lots of learning.

Before The Weekend (48:53)

I think it's going to be a little bit of a thing. Yeah, but that that date, Antonia, that date. That

date, what do they have to do by that date?

Antonia Mercorella (48:58)

Yeah, so so ideally by that date you've done your enrolment, there is this kind of extra little period of time, I think until the twenty-ninth of July, that you've got, but really I'd love to see all real estate agents enrolled by no later than that date. First of July, ⁓ if you're providing that designated service, so effectively selling real estate or acting as a buyer's agent or acting as a as a business broker.

⁓ you've got to be enrolled and you've got to be complying with AML. So it's doing all of your AML checks on both your client and on the counterparty in that transaction. And getting your tech ready, right? Like the reality is, yes, Ostrack, the regulator, have developed a bunch of template documents you can use. You can do all of this stuff manually. But as we demonstrated during our during our roadshow,

Kasey McDonald (49:25)

Mm-hmm.

Antonia Mercorella (49:50)

That takes hours and hours and hours. I don't think it's realistic or practical. So tech is almost certainly going to play a role. So make sure that you use this time to be exploring all of the different tech platforms that are out there, and there are so many of them. And ⁓ and have a list of questions that you want to ask so you can work out which one is right for your business and for the size of your business.

Before The Weekend (50:00)

And ⁓ I think I've always just wanted to be able to

Kasey McDonald (50:15)

Mm-hmm. Antonia, just one question on that for me. What what ⁓ what's going to come into play, do you think, for the property management side of the industry with AML?

Before The Weekend (50:16)

get a little bit of a

Antonia Mercorella (50:25)

Yeah. Yeah, good good

question. We were able successfully fend off property management. simply because ⁓ I'll use Queensland, that's the jurisdiction I live in. You've got sort of over it's it's around six hundred and thirty thousand ⁓ tenancy agreements in play. Many of those are co tenancy agreements. ⁓ for anyone who knows about AML laws, if you had to do those AML checks and processes in the property management space, ⁓ you know.

Kasey McDonald (50:35)

Mm.

Antonia Mercorella (50:54)

would have just been an absolute administrative nightmare. So property management has been excluded, as has ⁓ commercial leasing, ⁓ provided the lease is under 30 years as the general rule. So ⁓ you know, for now, I know for some people have said, maybe Ostrak will expand the laws to cover property management in the future. One never knows. But ⁓ look, I I don't I don't think, certainly I don't think that's on the cards today.

Before The Weekend (51:11)

You know, but now I know people said,

⁓ maybe there was a track program.

Kasey McDonald (51:23)

Well, some great news ⁓ in the property management space, right? because like yes, right. Yeah, you know,

Antonia Mercorella (51:27)

The PMs finally get a bit of a legislative break, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (51:32)

across many states around Australia, we've absolutely seen those changes and lots that the property managers all, you know, already need to do down days. So that's fantastic news if we can keep them out of some change for a little while. ⁓ the biggest change though, right, that's hit ⁓ the news this week, of course, is the federal budget.

Antonia Mercorella (51:35)

Mm, mm.

Before The Weekend (51:42)

the biggest change though, right? ⁓ it hit ⁓ the news this week of course is the need to budget.

Kasey McDonald (51:53)

and I think the key that's been on social media is all about how how this is going to impact our property industry around the nation and more importantly, investors and I think ⁓ renters really here with a lot of conversations

Before The Weekend (51:53)

and I think the key that's been on social media is all about how how this is going to impact our industry around the nature, more importantly. I think

Antonia Mercorella (52:01)

Mm-hmm.

Kasey McDonald (52:06)

around how rents might hike, all of that. So what's your take? Love it, hate it, what's your opinion?

Antonia Mercorella (52:12)

Yeah, look, let me start by saying ⁓ I'm trying to approach this in a calm manner. I'm trying to be measured about it. Obviously there is a lot of fury around it. I I'm trying to stay off my phone and not look at social media about it at the moment. Look, ⁓ there's a couple of there's a couple of key things I'll say. I'll start with you know, one of the, you know, one of the important narratives behind this budget is around

Kasey McDonald (52:30)

Ha ha ha

Antonia Mercorella (52:40)

Creating pathways to home ownership for younger Australians. So I'll start there. You know, that for me is really important, not just as a mother, but even as the CEO of a peak body. We have long

Before The Weekend (52:46)

You know, that kind of big three is really good.

Antonia Mercorella (52:53)

been advocating for this. What we've steadily seen in Queensland in particular, but also across Australia is this decline in levels of home ownership and the 25 to 39 year old bracket.

That's where we've seen the sharpest decline. And and that is concerning. That should be concerning for all of us because there's plenty of research that shows how detrimental it is to be locked out of home ownership. So so I want to sort of start there and say, do I think governments should be focused on fixing or addressing that problem? Absolutely, yes.

⁓ do I think that this reform package is going to seriously move the dial on that issue? Sadly, I don't. I really don't. So, so by their own admission, it's going to add around seven and a half thousand new home buyers per annum. Now, it that's always any new first home buyers, ⁓ that's great. We welcome that. But in the context of of of

Of what that look like when you look at what that looks like, over the past decade, there's on average, there's about 115,000 first home buyers entering the market per annum. So as a percentage, it's it's pretty low. ⁓ and and also, I mean, this really simplistic argument that you know, you take this group of investors, if we believe the treasurer's modeling, 75,000 investors will sell.

Kasey McDonald (54:12)

Hmm.

Antonia Mercorella (54:25)

And those spaces will be just immediately, that void gets immediately filled by all of these first home buyers. That's just not the way it works. It it will work in some instances, but not in all instances, because investors will buy, investors and owner occupiers have a very different mindset. so so so so I just think it's a bit too simplistic. The other thing I'll say is if you're sincere about what we've actually got.

A massive issue in this country where a whole group of people have developed a mindset that home ownership will never be something that they can achieve. then let's get serious about how we're going to fix that. Let's have a serious conversation. let's not add that weeks before a budget. You know, we knew capital gains tax reform was coming, negative gearing by the treasurer's own admission got added.

Kasey McDonald (55:11)

Mm-hmm.

Antonia Mercorella (55:16)

weeks before. You cannot make that kind of significant taxation reform on the fly. And if and if the objective is what they say it is, then involve the right people in that conversation. And let's get really serious. Let's have a conversation about serious wholesale taxation reform in this country. Let's bring the Henry Tax Review paper that everyone's buried very deeply. Let's bring that out and have those really tricky conversations. Because I'm all for that.

Kasey McDonald (55:29)

Yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (55:46)

But but to kind of just go, well, we're gonna kind of focus on on those pesky investors, you know, they they've they've had it a bit too good for too long. Let's kind of take away from them and therefore and justify what we're taking away from them so that our children and our gr grandchildren can buy. I I just think it's it's it's it's it's lazy. It's it's really lazy politics in my view.

Kasey McDonald (56:10)

Yeah. So I think we've got like it's like a housing supply issue, right? And I think we've got construction costs ha are rising. We've not got enough building going on. And so, you know, to your point, it's sitting down talking to the right people to say, well, how do we actually bring more homes in? How do we expand? How do we get more land opportunities? Where does that look like? And what's the affordability ceiling for the younger generation?

Before The Weekend (56:10)

Yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (56:21)

Mm-hmm.

Kasey McDonald (56:37)

⁓ you know, I bought my first home when I was 18 and I could buy something for around a hundred and twenty thousand. right. So ⁓ now what can you buy for a hundred and twenty thousand on a for example, a property manager's salary? So there there isn't a lot. ⁓ and so you sort of need double, triple incomes. And so ⁓ I think we've got a a completely different conversation that they've totally missed as a part of this reform, and not talking to the right people.

Antonia Mercorella (56:37)

Well that's strong. Mm.

Not.

Well, I think s supply is sorry, P, ⁓ y you know, I if I had a dollar for every time I've said this sentence, but you know, supply is key, KC. And and that, you know, despite which side of politics you sit on, despite what your views might be, virtually every single economist, property expert, even like I've been involved in so many different, you know, I was involved in the housing summit here in Queensland. There are lots of different stakeholder groups.

Kasey McDonald (57:13)

Yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (57:31)

We are all in furious universal agreement that supply is the key. The challenge with that is exactly what you've just pointed out. We've got we've we've allowed this issue to get to a really critical point where we've just got so much catching up to do, and we're trying to do that at a time when construction costs are at an all-time high. We've now got a global fuel crisis happening as we speak. we've got a lack of trade. So

It it it's it's a wicked problem, I want to acknowledge that, and it's not one we can fix overnight. But again, trying to tinker around the edges and making it look like you're doing something really important for for for the for the first time home buyer, I just think let's get more serious about that and let's dedicate the time and effort that that warrants to it, rather than taking advantage of the fact that you've got an opposition in disarray.

You've still got a federal election that's two years away. So now feels like a good time to do something that, let's be honest, is pretty controversial, right? It's hard not to, it's hard not to be cynical about.

Kasey McDonald (58:34)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Before The Weekend (58:37)

I think I can

get there. Yeah, I th I I think I think that's a really good point. My my my biggest disappointment about the budget is nothing

that they bought in, or the fact that I I feel like parts of it are ill thought through. I I'm watching this divisive politics creep into every side of government where we're turning one generation against another, we're turning immigrant against somebody else. And ⁓ you know, to have another, to have another federal budget sort of come up and have things like, you know, intergenerate intergenerational fairness. Yeah, a lot of the a lot of the people who have amassed wealth using property are moms and dads. And

Antonia Mercorella (58:57)

Mm-hmm.

Kasey McDonald (59:00)

Mm.

Antonia Mercorella (59:00)

Mm-hmm.

Before The Weekend (59:13)

They've done it frugally. Like they're not these are not people who are sitting in the top ten percent of our of our money earners. And yet I I feel like one of one of the the outcomes that ⁓ the our our sitting government wants is to sort of say we're gonna take the r you know from those rich boomers and we're gonna give it to the incoming generation that comes through, even though at the same time they've removed negative gearing, which is how they got into

Antonia Mercorella (59:19)

And

Before The Weekend (59:37)

property at the s and and like it's not the point about, you know, the budget. It's that they're leveraging one part of Australian society against the other. I I don't know how we sort of stop the divide, ⁓ the the use of divisiveness in every aspect, like whatever it is. It really frustrates me.

Antonia Mercorella (59:42)

⁓ yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think you can feel it, right? Like I feel it when I talk to people. It's this divide of the it's this growing divide. It's the have and the have nots. And it's us versus them. And it's and you know, I have a couple of young adults at home. My my my sons are both young adults and you know, I'm a mum, I get it. I I'm concerned about their future too. I'm I'm all for having this really important conversation, but I don't want it to be ⁓ you know

You're a good person, you're a bat, you're a bad person. Like that is just it's really dangerous and it's it's far too simplistic. And and I think it's actually really unfair, right? I think I I I I think there's a lot of people out there who are we've been told where you know, we know we have an aging population here in Australia. We've been told you need to think about the future, you need to think about how you're going to provide for your future, what you're going to do when you're no longer working.

Before The Weekend (1:00:31)

Yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (1:00:48)

we can't all be reliant on on on on the government for welfare. So, you know, there's a lot of people out there who have taken proactive steps, absorbed a lot of ⁓ you know, they've made some sacrifices, they've they've got risk that comes with that. and and I think they're feeling a bit like they're they're vilified and ⁓ and and and and I think that's legitimate.

Kasey McDonald (1:00:56)

Mm.

Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah.

Before The Weekend (1:01:09)

Yeah. We have

⁓ soaked up far too much of your time on a Friday. Thank you for ⁓ thank you for lending it to us and coming and giving us your opinion. it i I guess my point to you is you should go and have a great weekend now, consider considering this is before the weekend. a any messages to agents as they go out on on their Saturday, Sunday? What what what are we hearing?

Kasey McDonald (1:01:17)

Yes.

Antonia Mercorella (1:01:24)

Ha ha.

Yeah.

Yeah, look, my message would be just just following on from the federal budget conversation, I think we have to just take a breath, take a step back. I I understand the emotion, but let's wait and see what it really means because I think there's a lot of there's a lot of people out there making all sorts of assumptions. we've seen lots of different changes over over many decades in this country. ⁓ the sun will keep rising.

We all need shelter at the end of the day. That that roof above our heads is critically important. And I think just be really careful about not giving people financial investment advice. I'm really concerned when I look around and I see some agents, I think they're probably crossing a line. So don't be doing that.

Kasey McDonald (1:02:10)

Yeah.

Before The Weekend (1:02:13)

We haven't covered we haven't

Kasey McDonald (1:02:15)

Like yeah.

Antonia Mercorella (1:02:16)

but look, let's just let's just let's just call for a bit of calm. It it it remains to be seen exactly what it's gonna mean. And you know, that that that's probably my message on the federal budget. I get the disappointment, but it it's n it's it won't it won't be the it's not the first time, it won't be the last time that we see taxation reform and other reform that impacts on the way that we do business.

Kasey McDonald (1:02:40)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Before The Weekend (1:02:40)

Outstanding. Antonio

Mercarella, CEO of the RERQ, thank you for joining us on the Friday. We'll leave you to your day. You have a fantastic weekend ahead. Tell the truth. Me too. Hold your

Antonia Mercorella (1:02:48)

Happy weekend. Thanks for having me. Bye.

Kasey McDonald (1:02:49)

Yeah, thank you. Thanks for joining.

Kasey McDonald (1:02:53)

Well, Pete, what a fabulous Friday we've had, hey?

Before The Weekend (1:02:53)

What a what an action packed first

Yeah. Tell me about it. Crazy. and big thank you to our special guests for joining today, I suppose, as it goes without saying. we got yeah, what we covered Perth, Victoria and Queensland today at least.

Kasey McDonald (1:02:57)

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think of course everyone had their take on federal budget. And I loved Antonia's take of just let's be calm, let's just digest it and continue on with what we do best, right?

Before The Weekend (1:03:16)

We'll be hearing about that federal budget for weeks to come, let's be honest. We're gonna be sick of it before next week. But hey, if you've joined us, ⁓ thank you so much for listening. we are delighted that anyone would spend time listening to what we say here. But we really appreciate you you jumping on and saying good day. If you've got any ⁓ suggestions for us, don't forget you can go to the before the weekend, ⁓ you can get in contact with us there.

Kasey McDonald (1:03:19)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Before The Weekend (1:03:41)

Our email address is hello at before the weekend.com, but you can send ⁓ any special guests that you want to propose or any topics you want to talk about. and obviously you can subscribe through all of the majors Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, ⁓ and directly. we'd we'd love to have you join us next week. ⁓ Casey McDonald, thank you so much for hanging and going along with us today. And we've had some tech problems, some tech teething problems, which is ironic considering I operate in the tech industry.

Kasey McDonald (1:04:06)

Yeah tech.

Before The Weekend (1:04:08)

We both do now, right? What soon?

Kasey McDonald (1:04:08)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. yeah. But no, an absolute ⁓ fantastic Friday. I hope everyone has an awesome weekend. And ⁓ we always will bring you before the weekend just in time for you to crack open

beer ⁓ and get onto your open home. So happy selling, happy leasing.

Before The Weekend (1:04:24)

Chao