eXp Calls Back, Surcharges, NSW Legislation

Episode 21 and the week ahead

Kasey McDonald (00:05) Friday, the second of October, episode 21 of Before the Weekend. Hello to all of our listeners today on this fabulous sunny Friday in Brisbane. And I'm here today with my amazing co-host, Peter Schravemade. How are we today?

Peter Schravemade (00:20) Amazing co-host. I'm doing well. Thank you. And thank you for the introduction. It like sensational Friday in Queensland. I hope around the country you guys are are in in equally fine weather. I suppose we're well and truly into the throes of spring, but it doesn't feel like summer yet. And yeah, massive week ahead of us, I suppose, Kasey.

Kasey McDonald (00:40) Yeah, definitely. Lots to chat through. We've got a call that came through to you from eXp. We did ask for that last week if there was anyone that could let us know kind of what's happening in that space. So you'll provide us a bit of an update on that later in the podcast. We've got New South Wales privacy laws. We've got money moving, surcharge bans, of course, from the credit card fees. There was a big article out in regards to DEFT, which we all know in our industry that supports tenant rent payments. So we can dive into that. We've got stuff on the market, of course, where we're all sitting agents in court again, unfortunately, the tenants from hell. Interesting little piece there. And of course, we've got some quick fire things to get through. A bit to talk about this week.

Rates to 4.60, Mark Bouris and government spending

Peter Schravemade (01:32) Yeah, well, why don't we kick off? I suppose the the the big one is the RBA lifted the cash rate. Everyone's talking about it. We knew it was coming last week. We we spoke about it. One one thing that I did want to point out here, was an article this week from Mark Bouris. Actually, he appeared on 2GB in the Today Show. So Mark Bouris is the Yellow Brick Road guy. He's also I think he's also on Shark Tank and a few other things. He came out swinging this week. Basically, he said that the government are spending, and I don't quote me on the figures, but it was like the government are spending 30 something percent of our GDP every year. Our taxes sit around twenty-six percent. The difference is what our generations down the line are are going to have to pay. Now we're in one trillion dollars worth of debt. He said, forget everything else that you've heard out there. When somebody, you know, if you've got a mate and he is spending fifty thousand dollars a month and he's not earning fi I mean I don't know who earns that. Let's go let's go two thousand dollars a month and he's only earning eight hundred dollars a month.

Peter Schravemade (02:39) Do you think that's sustainable over a long period of time? Basically the money, the difference between what we spend and what we're not taxed, and we're very highly taxed at the moment, we borrow. And so all of that we're gonna have to pay back. And you know, there's been a lot of conjecture over is it the government spending, is it not? I I think it's Very, very clear that the government is spending too much money at the moment and there shows no sign of of s of stopping. I noticed a massive announcement to keep a smelter open in in Tasmania to to try and win over the Labor voters in Victoria. They've just announced a a new train line to the airport. I mean, these are all the they they could be really good projects. But the government spending doesn't appear to be going anywhere and and everyone's shouting about it. I mean, even David Kochie Koch came out of nowhere and had a swing at them. So, you know, yes, it's gone up. I would expect interest rates to go up again. I'm really sorry for anyone with a home loan because it just seems unfair, but that seems to be the direction we're going at the moment.

Kasey McDonald (03:43) Yeah. And I think with that, what he's also saying is it's with that spending, it's that it's kind of contradicted that whole piece in terms of that, especially the property market. You know, when I was listening to a little bit of what he shared is that that generational gap, right. And this, the changes that they made to some of these reforms was all about. The younger generation, our children being able to get into the property market or not even our children, those that are still sort of that 25 to 35 now who can't save and haven't been able to afford. But what we're seeing is now the complete opposite because of the government spending. It's then showing the inflation is rising, but it's not actually coming from us. It's not coming from our living rooms. We're not spending more on groceries. In fact, we're spending technically less in terms of we're buying less, but the bill is going up because of the prices of the groceries, right? So yeah, they've sort of not really actually looked at how in fact the policies that they've put into place, it's already had a major effect in such a short period of time.

Kasey McDonald (04:51) And as we know, with many of those things, it then takes years and years and years for it to bounce back if it was to ever change.

Peter Schravemade (04:59) Yeah, exactly. It it really is a l you know about the debt that we we're getting ourselves into. It's just crazy because you and I wouldn't operate our personal finances in that way. And it it just seems stunning that we have a government that's happy to do that and they can blame everything. They can blame the war in Iraq and whatever else they are, but we just need to be be better at at fiscal management. I just don't see that. We should move on. There's a couple of stories I want to touch on this week, you know, general interest ones actually, and I'll do them right off the bat. For those of you who who follow a popular figure called Jet Xavier, Jet is describes himself as a high performance guy. He he he's hired by franchises to get out there and I guess inspire them. He talks a lot of mindset. He talks about you know, balancing. Work life, and and and things like that. It's been a while since I've seen him. I actually met him on a tour that that you and Tara organised back in the day in Perth.

Agents on social media: pages, people and sliding into DMs on Threads

Peter Schravemade (06:03) And I it was we well it was well known to me because of that tour that his name, his real name was not Jet Xavier. It's actually Anthony Hook. But Jet Xavier was like his stage name. And I I don't actually know whether Anthony or Jet, whichever way we want to refer to him, went out of his way to hide that. He certainly never did to me. It was just I would call him Jet Xavier out of respect for that's what he wanted to be known in the industry. Well, this week in Facebook, on Facebook, it was actually right after it's been up for a week now and he's been unable to to fix it. He his his Facebook profile, all of his Meta profiles have changed to Anthony Hook. And I I'm guessing, I I'm not a hundred percent certain, but I'm guessing that lines up with if you if you are on Facebook and you're purporting to be somebody that you're not, Facebook will ping you and ask you for proven forms of ID.

Peter Schravemade (07:00) And if you don't have those proven forms of ID, which I'm guessing Anthony Jet, whichever name we get we're taking him by at this point, I'm guessing he he provided his passport and driver's licence and it said Anthony Hook. Because That's his real name. If he hasn't changed it at deep. So he's been unable to change that. And I know I noticed in posts now taken down, he was asking for assistance on Meta. You know, if anyone had assistance out there to to change it. So, you know, a c a couple of things here. I I think I think for Anthony Jet, it's going to be quite difficult to continue. As a person, in Meta, you have the opportunity to be a a page, which is you know what popular y if you are Agro or Big Bird from from the Sesame Street, you would be a page, not a person. And so I suspect it's bad news for Anthony slash Jet is that he will have to move or try to move all his followers to that page. So, you know, more of a heads up.

Peter Schravemade (08:04) If you if you're following it's probably the same for real estate agents, if you're If you're if if you've got if you're a a popular figure and and a lot of real estate agents do have that kind of branding in the following, i if there's something different, like if I'm saying, even if I'm saying I'm Peter Schravemade at l Ray White or LJ Hooker or eXp or Harcourts or any of the franchise, that last bit there probably indicates you need to be a page. So you might want to go and check your Meta your Meta the way Meta is set up, that it aligns with your business direction moving forward. Because I think that's going to be a very hard lesson for Jet slash Anthony to to to get across. And and we have another one of those actually. And we've we've got another one directly from Meta straight off the bat. It's a there was a real estate agent. Now I'm not going to give the person's name or nor their franchise. What I suspect has happened is this person has a a couple of accounts. They've got Meta accounts with Facebook, Instagram, and Threads.

Peter Schravemade (09:10) And the Threads one is the one that is probably the most damning here because this particular person who happens to be a male has gone out chasing. What would you say, Kasey? You've seen the posts, has gone out chasing sexy girls. Is that where is that how we call it? Sexy girls, some of whom are not real, some of whom are definitely AI, like obviously AI.

Kasey McDonald (09:31) Mm-hmm. But you can tell in the picture though that it definitely appears to be AI when you do look at the imagery. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (09:39) Yeah. And and what would you call this? I think the the the kids refer to it as sliding into the DMs of these people. But they're not DMs, are they? They're like that these are like public posts. And what I suspect has happened when I look at this person, they have a private Instagram account, but their public account on on Threads or their Threads account is public. So this person, I I actually think he's making comments on Instagram. But they are appearing public on Threads and this person is unaware of that. So if you are a high profile real estate agent and you're sliding into the DMs of sexy girls or you're posting publicly and sexy girls, you know, and some of these are asking basically the the pictures are asking for sex and there is a response in the affirmative. I won't go over what it says, but you can get the picture even without without me making this public. You've got to be super careful you have your Meta unlock. And so first off the bat for Before the Weekend, do me a favour, go and check your Meta publication settings from how you've got your page set up to your privacy. I I because it it could be embarrassing.

Peter Schravemade (10:49) I I I fully defend well, and maybe it's not behaviour that I I would do, but this guy has a right to live a personal life away from his his professional. And Anthony Hook, Jet Xavier, has a right to have a stage name. If he wants that, the public will decide, you know, how to move forward. So I f I fully defend these people's rights to live outside of their professional career. I have a life outside of my professional career. You have a life outside of your professional career. You know, what we choose to do with that is really our own business. But I think people would have a lot of say if they saw professionals doing this kind of thing, right.

Kasey McDonald (11:27) Yeah, definitely. I just think it's more about us being cautious about what we are also posting on social media and what commentary we do make. You know, it's it's there all of the time, right? It's not going away. I mean, Meta can obviously remove it, but let's be real. What appears on the Internet is always going to be on the Internet, they say. So I think it's just again, it's just about us making sure that. When we are showcasing ourselves as professionals, that we're just being quite cautious about what we're also showcasing about our personal lives, I think. And I think it's great to be human. That's exactly what people wanna do. They wanna deal with humans and they wanna know you are a normal person and they can see what you are like, I guess, behind the scenes to understand if they wanna build a relationship with you in order to list your home for rent or for sale. But I think we just need to be very cautious. And careful and not don't post once we're either under the, you know, the influence of alcohol as an example.

Peter Schravemade (12:31) Yeah, yeah. Set a time frame if that's a thing. Yeah, and just just a bit on on yeah, yeah, that's right. A bit on

Kasey McDonald (12:32) Yeah, yeah. Plan your scheduling with your social media. Yeah.

eXp Australia: Mindy Powell-Hodges confirms the end of the Class 2 pathway

Peter Schravemade (12:39) That. We we don't set this podcast up to assassinate agents or franchises or offices. That's not why we exist. We've actually been quite careful the whole way through to not mention names and when we do mention names, make it a right of refusal. You know, they they obviously get a say to come on. And that leads pretty well into the next one. So last week we were asking the question, and I like to this date, this hasn't been picked up by public media. I've seen a press release now and a bunch of other things, and the press were just not interested in it. We were talking about eXp and their removal of Class 2 agents. Now, I noticed in the press release that I did, I got a call straight after the podcast last week or straight after we'd gone to air before the podcast aired, from somebody called Mindy Powell-Hodges, who is I was unaware of this. Is the country leader and the head of eXp since February 2026? She's out of Sydney. Mindy called me and she was lovely on the phone.

Peter Schravemade (13:37) I I spoke to her about you know, what we had recorded based on our knowledge, which was along the lines of you know, I always found eXp to be one of those agencies where you could add layers of agents beneath you. And I use the term multi-level marketing. I know they don't like that. Let's call it tiered marketing, you know, to be so and the the the tiered marketing was always Class 2 agents. And Mindy cleared that up for me. She she basically said that the Tranche 2 and the regulations that have come come in made it very, very difficult for them to continue Class 2 as an as an asset type. So she said they were discontinuing that. And she made the point that the majority of their agents. Were unaffected by this. And that lines up with what I said last year, last week. I had called a bunch of these agents and they were saying to me, we don't even know about the changes. You know, the changes, there is a press release for them, but they weren't ever picked up. So like I don't, I don't, you know, they they were saying we don't know about them and we don't envisage them being being an issue.

Peter Schravemade (14:45) I think the vast majority of eXp agents are licensed and that's the big difference. Could you be licensed or could you just be a registrant under these people? And that became incredibly difficult moving forward. So Mindy's point was like we made a decision, you know, based on these regulatory changes that we couldn't, we couldn't continue down that line. I think you know, the Mindy did acknowledge that there were some people that were going to be affected, but there were a small majority of that. And when I look at the press release that they sent out, Like it was a a pretty carefully worded press release. Like the the whole body never mentions Class 2, the the the area that it's affected. But you're talking about Class 1 only, every eXp agent is a full licensee. Enterprise and the Class 1 move are one strategy, same day. Stop recruiting individual reps, start recruiting principals who have already have you know good offices. I think the point that we made last week still remains. The eXp, I think you've been to an eXp conference with me in the US, have you not?

Kasey McDonald (15:55) Yes, yes, I have, yes.

Peter Schravemade (15:58) The eXp that we know from the US is all about a recruitment drive. And the point I made last week, and I think the point that was made on social media is this is a fair departure from the US model. Like it's a fair departure. And that may be what they need to do. I'm well aware, like RE/MAX, for example, who are a global organisation now, you know, sort of pulled in by the real brand, they operate differently in every country that I've ever seen because it has to happen. Culturally regulatory, you know, legislative legislative changes are different. So, you know, it's not it's not unsurprising, but I I think the social media commentators who actually brought this to an intention last week, well probab or two weeks ago or three weeks ago, whenever it happened, they were right in actually raising it. There will be people under eXp who have signed up for that recruitment model who will not be able to continue under that model now. So you know, that that is obvious unless they make everyone a licensed principal, which I think or licensee, which I think will in turn not be compatible with the model.

Peter Schravemade (17:06) So you know, big thank you for Mindy for getting back to me and getting the information across to me. It's probably just worth knowing if you're going into that and you're hoping to have that whole recruitment drive as we've seen in the past, that doesn't exist anymore. So That was a bit of a clarification from last week. I'm really happy that Mindy got in contact and let us know about that. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Kasey McDonald (17:32) No, no, just, you know, thanks Mindy for reaching out. Think it's certainly important. We put the call out there for someone to just clarify the information, but yeah, I do agree. I think maybe this is the path that they needed to take just simply because of, you know, the most recent changes that we've had here in Australia. And that's going to certainly be different in how much that model can operate. So yeah, think, yeah, I think it's more broadly as ensuring that those people are getting notified, are aware of it within the eXp brand and what that's going to look like for, I guess, their own recruitment moving forward really is the interesting piece for us to keep watching out for.

Peter Schravemade (18:14) Yeah, exactly. And and a lot of those, I must say, a lot of those recruiters that are in eXp have disappeared from public view. The last time I saw one of them was at the major Australian real estate conference on the Gold Coast. The last time I was booting, which would have been three years ago. So I haven't I haven't seen or heard of one on social media or any of the other forums since then. So I think, you know, I think it it's people well within their bounds to go, no one's doing it anymore. It's too much of a drama for us, so we'll just cut it. Let's move on. Let's move on. This one, this one here is very interesting to me. We know because we've had Aaron Barber on from the REINSW that the the Real Estate Institute of New South Wales is not getting any communication with the Office of Fair Trading in New South Wales. Like they that's been completely obvious. There there's For whatever reason, the the government have decided we're not going to engage with the REINSW, which to me, say what you want about them. It's it's a ludicrous standpoint to have.

NSW rental privacy laws and AI image disclosure - the $5,000 mural

Peter Schravemade (19:21) But you know, this this next article and and I'm gonna pair it with something else I've been was sent this week, because I happen to be in contact with Tim McKibbin this week. And Tim McKibbin has sent me documents and I'm gonna get you to open them in a second. I've sent them to your email because I want your reaction to them. But there's a there's a couple of articles now coming out saying that New South Wales have tightened agent data rules, AI disclosure, rental laws, like debt. When I say tightened, tightened is the is the name on the article. I I think they've introduced new ones. I don't know if tightened is the right word. But, you know, some of them are some of them are crazy. And well I'm not gonna go over all of them. I'll leave that for New South Wales people. Probably get in touch with the REINSW about what this impacts you. But there's a couple in there that I am more than qualified to comment on. The the AI The new laws that come in regarding AI in photography.

Peter Schravemade (20:24) I'm not going to go over them, but I think for anyone who understands my background with the property technology company BoxBrownie and the fact that I was relied upon for ethical marketing, photography, and copyright advice across the globe for the better part of five years. When I read the laws, they demonstrate a basic misunderstanding of how a photo is edited. For the marketing of a property. I I think if I challenged it in a court of law, I would win that. You know, the they're assuming that there are just some photos that AI touches. And I know what they're trying to stamp out. They're trying to stamp out the example that we showed or we brought to the table last week or the week before, where a rental property had been irrevocably changed to be much more Beautiful. And I I think the the line that they crossed was they were they edited parts of the house that were, you know, that just couldn't be done without a renovation. And I think that's what the the RE I think that's what the Office of Fair Trading in New South Wales are are are looking to do.

Peter Schravemade (21:38) But their wording basically makes, in my opinion, it makes about 95% of the photos that hit the national portals. Illegitimate. And that's the bigger concern because what has been AI edited and what hasn't been. Within Adobe Photoshop, there are huge swathes of AI editing just in in editing a photo, whether that's adjusting the colour, the light, you know, so my my take on it is even the ones that do represent the property properly still fall south of the regulation. And the Office of Fair Trading just have no understanding of the editing process. They're saying anything that's been edited with AI, well, my gosh, that's everything. That's the whole, that's the whole shebang. You change these days, you change the sky, which is an acceptable practice. Why would we show a grey sky when we know that that you know there could be blue the next day? We have plenty of blue sky here. It's not like Chicago, where You know, 280 days of the year are grey sky, and that could be misrepresenting. No, here in Australia, we have blue sky. A lot of us have green grass. Why would we not display the the property in its best light? That's always been an acceptable practice.

Peter Schravemade (22:58) All of those things are AI, but even, you know, the vertical straightening, the horizontal straightening that go on as part of the editing, the colour balancing, a lot of that these days is done with AI. And I'm I'm suggesting to you that. Nearly every image falls foul of the the laws that the New South Wales housing minister just introduced. Which is which is very, very interesting. Now, do I think they're going to be policing that? No, no, I don't. I don't think they're going after every image. I think they'll go after the ones that misrepresent, but it's all in their terminology. And this is exactly what Tim's saying to me. So if I can, I'll get you to open those documents because like the The REINSW sent us these documents and I sent them to you. I want you to have a look at the regulatory changes that the REINSW are dealing with. I want you to tell me, you know, how many pages these documents are, whether you feel that it's fair to stay on top of it, because I I think I think that the REINSW have a very, very, very good point here.

REINSW's master table: 33 Acts, 2,100 amendments, and the PMs carrying them

Peter Schravemade (24:05) I actually feel as though looking at these documents, as though It would be ridiculous for anyone to understand how a professional now operates with the changes that just the changes that have come through in eighteen months. Now what are you looking at? Describe it to us.

Kasey McDonald (24:23) Well, I've just opened the email for a start. It's an attachment of 20 megs and it's a Word document. So let's just sit on that for a little minute. I haven't even opened it yet.

Peter Schravemade (24:36) Yeah, well that's that's huge.

Kasey McDonald (24:39) So what is that telling us? I think for a start, let's just see if we can actually open the document. It's taking a minute.

Peter Schravemade (24:47) Well, while you're doing it, let me just talk you through what's in there. So there are more than 2,100 amendments, amendment items. Now, Aaron was saying 500 changes. There are 2,100 amendment items. Our Aaron, general manager of the REINSW, 209 of them have penalties, eight bills are pending, nine policy items. 33 instruments. So strata has five, sales has five, PM has 10. There are 13 others. There are New South Wales, digital ID, privacy tort, AML, ACCC penalties doubled, unfair trading. Every entry ends, implications for agents and psychosocial risks. So you know, I think the I think the the the problem is You know, if your boss came to you over an eighteen month period and said to you, I want to change I wanna change the way you operate, here are you know, over a period of time, a sustained period of time, here are two thousand one hundred changes, you wouldn't know which way was up by the end of that. And so I I have to I have it it took that long to open up. Yep.

Kasey McDonald (25:58) Definitely. That's only just opened up by the way as a 20 meg Word document file. So, open up. Yeah, just as it was obviously, but. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (26:12) I don't I look I don't know how they're doing it.

Kasey McDonald (26:13) This is a lot, like it's a lot to even present, I guess, just even as the government's making these changes, then just actually even to sit down, and I know they're not, but to sit with the REINSW and say, here are all of these points, without there being that consultation and collaborative thought processes to whether or not how these are actually going to, in reality world, out. And how in fact they're going to make these changes. To your point, if you presented this to me of 2,000 changes and we need to get these all done and we've got until a particular time next year to ensure they're all rolled out effectively. Whilst also our property managers and sales agents still having to perform their roles each and every day, I don't understand how they're going to do this effectively for it to. To, I guess, have the outcomes that potentially the government is seeking. And what is that actual outcome? I don't know. That's certainly not clear in all of this.

Peter Schravemade (27:18) It's it's crazy. And I'll seek Tim's permission, but I I might actually put those documents up so anyone from New South Wales can go and have a look at it. But ep in episode 17 Aaron said 500 changes. Obviously this is blowing that out of the water. I think there are more than four times that. And the the it's really important that that the REINSW, well, number one, because there's no no conversation there with the peak body, like you would think if you were gonna do this. The way would be let's go and have a chat to them about how we unleash this across, you know, in a in a rel relatively impact-free way, if that's even possible. But but REINSW are framing these the they're framing this reform as a workplace health and safety psychosocial hazard. And based on

Kasey McDonald (28:05) Yeah, absolutely.

Peter Schravemade (28:06) What based on what we heard, we're not even looking at the DV changes that have come in. I would say it's more than that at the moment. The here's here's one really, really important fact that I want to leave with everyone. Not a single one of those adds revenue to the rent roll or the prop the principal or the property manager. Fees banned, obligations added. Like this is a great example of legislating to solve for the supply and demand problem that is inherently the local, state, and federal governments. And it it's it's absolutely unfair. Like there may be some changes in there that are are legitimate and should happen. I'm all for transparency, I'm all for fairness across the board. But the the minister for housing in New South Wales needs to take a long, hard look at himself and decide what the hell are we doing? Because like without professional management, have they considered what this looks like? Like let's say all your property managers leave. I would argue, and I argued this fairly succinctly last week when we heard, you know, that ridiculous stat from the guy who wants you know, tenants to go to landlords direct. I would argue that landlords cannot do this. They cannot do this.

Peter Schravemade (29:23) They there will fall for fail of it. And it's not just me arguing that the the the the bodies that we looked at, like so here in Queensland, QCAT, NCAT and VCAT in the in Victoria all say the same thing. That 80% of the complaints made against landlords are from privately tenanted properties, not professionally managed properties. And that even tells you that, you know, there's an overwhelming lack of understanding when it comes to private management. So it's not even a case of, hey, we're favouring the industry here. I just don't think it can be done. I don't think you can privately manage a house properly anymore. And I I does the minister for New South Wales actually understand that is crazy. So, you know, there's a it something's got to give at some point, you know.

Kasey McDonald (30:10) Yeah, well, having just spent the last few weeks on the road, actually, you know, with PMs and a lot of them were, they were talking about many of these changes, in particular, the DV one, it was obviously top of mind and it sort of all landed on their desks as it did for REINSW as well, very quickly. And they were really unsure of what, what was required. So, you know, I think Aaron and the team there have been doing an incredible job by, you know, running webinars, training events, just trying to get as much information to them as best as they possibly can. But it's all still incredibly contradicting of each other and they were all sitting there so concerned about what it actually meant for them. And the work now that they have to do just to be involved within that process. There were several of them that have been in the industry for a long time who were just simply saying, We just don't have the mental capacity to continue to do this role anymore. We love what we do. It's why we've stayed in the role, but what they're expecting of us, we just cannot achieve for what we're, the time, obviously.

Kasey McDonald (31:19) And many of them are working and starting work at six in the morning now to ensure that they're being responsive and as efficient as they can. And they're working till late at night. You know, they're not taking their lunch breaks. So they're already stressed. They're already at capacity in terms of their workload. And then they've got to learn how to embrace any of these new changes. What does it mean? Does that change in my workflow? How do I now need to change any of my emails that might represent this? What form do I have to use? And there was all of these conversations that were happening amongst them from those maturely have been in the industry for a long time. And those who are newly in the industry were just like, so maybe have I chosen the wrong pathway. For a career, which is really sad and disappointing to hear. But this

Peter Schravemade (32:07) It is it is big yeah.

Kasey McDonald (32:09) Is exactly what is going on. They're not, because of that, I guess, lack of consultative approach or the, look, we're proposing this. Maybe we've seen some data on this and we'd like to sit down, talk about it and understand what we need to do to improve it. That's certainly not happening. And the PMs are crying out there. They're not getting paid enough. Getting all these things imposed on them that I guess borderline maybe police should actually be involved, not them, know, where are they trained, what education are they getting. So it was just really, it was, you know, interesting to hear from the grassroots as to how and which our property managers are in New South Wales are being impacted. And that was one topic, Pete. That was just the DV and just the DV and how it was impacting them.

Peter Schravemade (32:55) Yep. Just the DV. Yep. And yep. Yep. And so you know, I'm conscious that this is happening. Like West Australia's got rent reforms. They're coming for South Australia. We spoke about that with An Andrea's come out really well saying she wants evidence-based and she wants it to be actual functions of of of property managers. Andrea, of course, being the CEO of the R R Real Estate Institute of South Australia. I know that Toby and Jacob. Down there in Victoria are are fighting against a government desperately clinging to power at the moment and and they are under fire. We haven't seen it as much in Queensland since the change of government. And and I would I would say that Queensland has a working relationship, let's go with that, with the real estate with the Office of Fair Trading. And so they they are actually working constructively to look at these things. But we we we should we should move on. But Let me just say before we do, if you are one of those property professionals and it's all getting too much, we will put information in here. Don't forget about the Rise Care app, which is mental health and wellness app. So we'll put information in there.

Peter Schravemade (34:06) You should seek assistance if if it's all getting too much, because the last thing that we want is a property manager broken because a a government is not listening to the to facts and figures and not understanding the industry. So if that's you, you know, take it from me, make the call. There are people who care and there are people who listen are around you. Don't lose sight of that. Let's go on to this next one because this is super interesting. I I know a lot of it was on the news last night. October 1st, the credit card surcharge ban is is super interesting. Super interesting because we have government, you know, like we have government bodies like the ATO saying that they no longer will take credit card payment. Which I I think is ridiculous because this has been brought in. Just so you know, Anthony Albanese and Jim Chalmers came out yesterday saying this is ours, this is ours. It's actually not. It's the re the Reserve Bank of Australia has brought this in. I don't mind it. I don't mind it, except for the fact that it has caused a lot of consternation in small business at the time. That small business probably doesn't need that.

Surcharge ban, REA's Supplier Trade Fee, DEFT drops cards, the Centrepay 99 cents

Peter Schravemade (35:15) But for what I I do like about it is let's say you're selling a Mars bar for five dollars in one shop. And you have a credit card surcharge, which you don't know about until it's in the small fine print when you tap your card, those days are gone. So if you know, if you if that if the small business is charging you and they need to add it in, it's going to be $6 and but you know it straight away. So I I think I think the bottom line is that it will it will bring more transparency. But one of the things that I've noticed is that for bigger business or the bigger end of town, They're going to be missing these fees. Like these, these are no small fees. So you imagine everyone paying tax taxation through a credit card, which I do. I get points on that. I get reward points. That might get me a holiday or a Qantas upgrade, which I think is a nice, a nice thing. If I'm paying tax, it makes it I'm I'm certainly paying more than the government knows what to do with at the moment, or it spends responsibly. So, you know, there's that side. The least I could do is get.

Peter Schravemade (36:16) Some kind of, you know, advantage from that. Well, they have removed it. So this is the government who on one side says says that they bring it in. And then the second, you know, in in another department have said, well, the taxpayer's going to be picking up those surcharges. So we're leaving them out. Well, you know, I've got to say, mate, the taxpayer's picking up for everything at the moment, aside from the stuff that you're you're lending. But there are a couple

Kasey McDonald (36:34) Yeah, we are.

Peter Schravemade (36:37) Of interesting ones. So this is the first talking point. REA, I've I'm subscribe and I follow a person on Instagram who is a bookkeeper for most real estate agents. We're a very important person to to follow. I I think they're called sugar bookkeeping or something like that. A former no, she's a tradie's wife who does a bookkeeping for a lot of real estate agency around real estate agencies. And I'll put the link in there. She is saying that all of a sudden a supplier fee has appeared in REA invoices from the first of October. What a surprise. The supplier fee is for anyone who has an Amex card and is called a supplier fee. Now, all of it all of a sudden, these supplier fees have started appearing for anyone with Amex around the place. I'm not saying that it's a substitute for a credit card surcharge, but it certainly it certainly does look that way. You know, we've got we've got DEFT. I think you you said to me DEFT are a massive tech tax company. Just for the record, the ACCC, yep. The A trip

Kasey McDonald (37:45) Owned by Macquarie. Macquarie Bank owned DEFT, yeah.

Peter Schravemade (37:49) Yep. The ACCC are saying you can't rename card fees. You can't call it something else and still charge it. I noticed that Amex talk about a supplier fee in in there. So I don't know the legalities of that. Not throwing stones at the REA Group. Should say that straight up. But it's just ironic that that would come in on the first of October at 1.8%. Supplier fee for anyone with an Amex when apparently we're not allowed to be charging credit card surcharges. So it's kind of a watch this space because we've got ever I actually think the the majority of the industry don't know how to deal with this. There's a huge cut from the bottom lines. They just don't know what they're doing. What do you think?

Kasey McDonald (38:32) Yeah, I think there's a couple probably, I don't know how it's going to affect the tenants, but I think what came out of that DEFT article that there's 1.2 million rents payments a month that go through that platform. And they've actually removed the credit card option, but because what it was is to set that up, it was a $20 payment. So in how whatever payment method you I believe chose as a tenant. And I'm not across if there's been any changes, but I did use DEFT when I had my agency long time ago, because it was that option that allowed them to pay, BPAY, direct debit, credit card. You're giving all the options in one platform. The tenant in fact paid to have access to that. And I think that that has then been removed if I'm reading the article correctly. So then I don't know from their perspective, are they then going to look to find a way to charge the agent so that the tenant can still use it. Have they just removed the credit card component so that then there aren't those fees applicable. So kind of interesting to see how that plays out.

Kasey McDonald (39:40) There's about 1,200 agencies around Australia that actually utilise that to provide that as a payment option for tenants to pay their rent. So interesting to see, but there's also one that's come out from Centrepay. So many of the property managers would understand what that is, it's those that are on tenants that are on Centrelink and they can through their Centrelink payments instruct that certain amount of their payment goes immediately through to the real estate agency through this function called Centrepay. There is a 99 cent charge for that, but that's never able to be on charge, has never been able to be on charged to the tenant. And that has always been a fee that the agent charges. So I don't believe that's been abolished in what I'm reading. So I feel like we've got certain fees for certain transactions that are now being removed. And we've got certain businesses who are now changing the name of it and calling it a supply fee. And we've got governments that are not not right. Yep.

Peter Schravemade (40:41) Well, we don't we don't know we don't know we don't know that, but but it's just ironic that it's there. We don't know that for sure, but it's it

Kasey McDonald (40:48) Correct? Yeah, sure, yeah.

Peter Schravemade (40:49) There's a there's a lot of that happening. There's a lot of card deck shuffling in order to try and figure this out. And I'll go back to my original

Kasey McDonald (40:54) Yes, correct.

Peter Schravemade (40:56) Point. I don't think anyone knows what they're doing. Like small businesses are just adding it to the cost. So, you know, on International Coffee Day yesterday, they were doing a whip around going, has the coffee prices increased? I think eighty five percent of them had. The the card surcharge was on on the coffee and some of them hadn't I think the remainder hadn't got their act together as to the because they were talking about a cup of coffee and going up. It's like the bananas in Queensland every time it we get a cyclone up there, everyone's talking about the cost of bananas. But yeah, so International Coffee Day, most people were saying the coffee price had gone up in accordance with the card surcharge. Now look, I don't necessarily have a problem with that because then now we actually know what we're paying and I think this was the Reserve Bank's issue. What I do have an issue with is the way that they have made the legislation, but really haven't educated small businesses or I don't know if anyone's policing the larger, the larger companies to go, is this correct? But I would be stunned if the ACCC don't come out swinging at a few people charging for rates.

Peter Schravemade (42:02) And obviously we've we've fielded at least three articles from the ACCC against the REA Group. So if I were them If their legals are wrong, it's going to be very interesting. But at the moment, we don't know whether they are acting within the law or not. And I'm not making any aspersions there. I'm just saying that there is a supplier fee that has apparently, and it's on their website, has has appeared since the first of October. Yep.

Kasey McDonald (42:25) Appeared. Yeah, one call out just for that before we move on to the next is obviously as a part of a lot of this, know, there's fees and we can't on charge to the tenant, right? So then that means that with some of this, it's then going to be the agency. Again, that small business that's going to have to take it on. It's about agencies now looking at this clear, I guess, operationally what it means. But I think something else just to call out is what I have and what I've seen recently and I don't know if it's related to this, but I did see a couple of agencies here in Queensland actually do have a fee that they charge to the landlord in terms of offering different payment options to a tenant as an example. So it's only a small fee, it is that they're now looking. So I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that there's going to be the tenant can't be charged. So it goes back to the small business or let's just say us as a consumer with a coffee. So at the end of the day, there's always going to be someone that's going to end up paying it. Right.

Kasey McDonald (43:29) So in this situation, does that then become the landlord or the vendor that pays for it? Is it the tradie that ends up paying for it? Is it us as a consumer buying the coffee? So to your point, we all don't know what that is. But for those listening, today, just I think have a look at what you've got through your agency agreements, you know, and your best practice in this regard to ensure that everyone does exactly know what they're paying, what those marketing fees are, what your management fees are and what they're inclusive of and not inclusive of.

Peter Schravemade (44:02) Yeah, exactly. We should move on. So away from that, we've got a couple of we've got a couple of articles that have come through. I suppose this is a segment where we look at real estate agents acting badly, but the first one is not that at all. It is a it's an article from Cairns actually. And what it talks about is there are couple they have excellent references. They are income earners, They've applied for they say 15 houses, which is less than what I have heard from, but probably for the Cairns region. That's that's a big deal. And they just gave up. They ended up moving in with their parents. And and I guess, you know, we've got the zone manager coming out saying that they, you know, this is a this is a problem for that area. The median rental prices jumped up 22%. And so We've spoken about this before. It's very much in the same area as housing supply and demand. We've spoken about about the fact that people are moving back in with their parents. There are there's a higher amount, and I think you're gonna see that in the Australian Bureau of Statistics r responses when they come out.

Cairns: rejected 15 times at 0.8 per cent vacancy

Peter Schravemade (45:17) But yeah, from from what it seems, there this is across the board. Like people in Cairns are feeling it. I know people in Perth are feeling it. I know all over Australia, I think. This is a common story, right? We we're we're copping this from every angle at the moment.

Kasey McDonald (45:34) Yeah, definitely. And I think, I think the average or median rent across Australia now is onwards of 700. It's about 730, I think, from the last stats that I saw from Cotality. So if we're looking at, you know, husband and wife being able to afford that again, it's pushed it up, you know, I think some people saying stats are in the 40% is actually onwards of that. Think it's about 56% of a couple's income is now being put towards

Peter Schravemade (46:01) Yeah, it's crazy.

Kasey McDonald (46:03) Towards rent, right? So, but I guess, you know, there's so many people that are out there needing a home and how do you choose, you know, you're getting all of the best information that you now can through privacy and a lot has changed across many of the states now about what you can request in applications. We've covered this many times. And so how do you then choose? What are we now saying is the best and most suitable applicant or a tenant for that home? And it's not, just because they might offer a little bit more rent, right? It can't come down to that. Maybe it is, I don't know, but yeah, it's very much a squeeze game out there, I think, at the minute. It's gonna get worse, I believe. Yeah, they're definitely forecasting,

Peter Schravemade (46:44) Yep, it certainly is. Yeah, yep.

Kasey McDonald (46:48) The economists are forecasting that because we're seeing that softening, yep, we're gonna continue

Peter Schravemade (46:51) A rise. Yep.

Kasey McDonald (46:54) To see the rise in the rental space just because we're not building those homes fast enough.

Peter Schravemade (47:00) Yep, no good news there. Also this week, two agents in court. Again, not really keen on naming them, but it's actually funny. There's two in court, but three named in this three named in this segment. We've got a a Sunshine Coast real estate boss has been convicted after threatening to end an employee's career. Now I've read through that. I think it was I think it was several employees, but it was one main one who who they were able to provide the detail on there, which is an interesting one. That just sounds like a case of bullying that that w got out of control. I'm not to downplay it. Obviously, we should never be doing that, but you know, he's he's being convicted now. We're waiting on sentencing. We have another one out of the Gold Coast. We've got two, well, at least one rate real estate agent off the road after. Six substances found in in his system. Now from memory, this one has made news because it took the prosecution six months to take him to court for it. And they're saying he's been off the road for six months, and now at the back end of that, has a six-month sentence. The judge had dis had ignored his.

Two Queensland agents in court

Peter Schravemade (48:20) His counsel's pleas to have that six months already commuted commuted because of he's already serviced that. So he's he's got another six months off the road, which to be honest, if you got six substances found in your system, and I I think he was saying that they were they were pharmaceutical, not you know, they were from a a GP but there was no proof of that, which led to the six month ban. We've also got in the same in the same article or is that the just the two we've got? No, we've got those two this week. So I don't know why they're all coming from Queensland. Are we are we just the state of bad agents at the moment, Kasey, or is that just what we're seeing? I d I don't know.

Kasey McDonald (49:02) Yeah, maybe we're just getting that feed because we're in both of us are in Queensland when we're seeing some of these coming through. Look, maybe it was our turn. We've been seeing this coming out of Victoria and New South Wales. Yeah, right. So maybe

Peter Schravemade (49:16) I suppose we have, yeah. Yeah. Suppose we have.

Kasey McDonald (49:19) It's been our turn to see some of this kind of coming to light in the Queensland space, which is really unfortunate. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (49:29) Yeah, yeah. And other the drugs one's tough. I I I wish we could stamp drugs out of real estate, but you know, we'll always have think we're always gonna have that minority that do that. Let's move on to this next one. So it's called the Tenants from Hell. It's a it's A Current Affair story if you want to watch it. Nine year Nine A Current Affair is the channel, twenty-eighth of September twenty twenty-six. Homeowners left with tenants from hell who stopped paying rent but won't leave. So I think the issue here is that there are two spare bedrooms and they have let them out to two other people to ease financial pressure. They have three children, including toddler twins, and a mother also in the house. And now their family just sleep in one bedroom. So supply and demand shortage. We've now got an entire family sleeping in one bedroom and letting out two other rooms. The occupants that they let the other two rooms to stop paying rent and refuse to leave under the New South Wales Court of Arbitration ordered to them ordered them to vacate the Friday before this story aired.

Tenants from hell: lodgers, boarders and approved occupants

Peter Schravemade (50:42) But there's been allegations of violence, domestic violence order is is also in place between the the owners of the property or the people who are letting it and the tenants. But I I don't think they have left at this point. So this seems to be, Kasey, a privately let property. If I'm looking at this article, I

Kasey McDonald (51:06) Yeah, it is, yeah.

Peter Schravemade (51:08) Don't believe there's a real estate or a property manager involved in this one. And to the point that we have said

Kasey McDonald (51:11) No, no.

Peter Schravemade (51:15) I I just don't think it's possible for people I don't think people should be privately renting rooms anymore. I I it's that's not the r that's not the fault of the real estate agents. That is the r responsibility of those who legislate. I just don't think it's possible anymore.

Kasey McDonald (51:31) Yeah, well, so I actually saw this air on A Current Affair. And look, the behaviour of the renter was pretty disgraceful, to be fair. And what is it's that's just like myself and my husband saying, hey, the kids have gone. So now we've got three spare bedrooms, two spare bedrooms. Let's kind of put it out there and see if we can rent one out, rent a couple of them out so that we can, you know, earn some extra cash. That's pretty much what this couple have done with their children.

Peter Schravemade (52:04) Well, probably a bit different. Probably a bit different because you would have experience in vetting, in in

Kasey McDonald (52:10) Yes.

Peter Schravemade (52:10) In doing the background checks. These these guys wouldn't have that. And like right at the very start,

Kasey McDonald (52:12) Yeah, these guys did. 100% they didn't. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (52:16) Right at the very start, how do how do you vet if you're a private landlord, how do you vet the people coming in? I I don't know. I don't know how you do that.

Kasey McDonald (52:25) Correct. And look, I guess the behaviour of this particular person, what she was showcasing on national television, I could see that potentially there's been problems going through real estate agents before they've been maybe evicted from homes. And I'm and I'm assuming this and it's just simply based on how she acted and behaved. And so I guess now for them, this is the only way forward. So they had to go privately. And yes, unfortunately in this situation, you've got a family who don't understand the legislation and think that's okay, let's get someone in that's gonna help us pay our mortgage. Things are a bit tight. And then they're faced with this situation of abuse. There is the DV order in place. They're all now sleeping in that one bedroom as an entire family because of this situation. And I guess it also comes back to the fact that there's legislation in place and where NCAT have ordered the vacate, but that doesn't really mean anything. And we've seen exactly this. That doesn't, they're still there. Correct. So then you've got to go through the warrant

Peter Schravemade (53:28) Well but still you still need somebody to come and kick him out. So, you know, that the co the cops need to be called now.

Kasey McDonald (53:34) Of possession. You've got to go through all these steps, but as these particular owners themselves, they don't and won't know what this actually means to have them evicted. And in some cases, Sometimes even in being professionally managed, you've got to go through all of these steps and it takes time and you've got to wait for the police to issue the warrant of possession and then you've got to be there when the police are there. There's all of these steps that you have to take in order just to evict those tenants that won't actually remove themselves when ordered. Yeah, look, was really, really terrible, disgusting behaviour by watching what I saw on the TV when that aired. Really, really terrible. And I don't wish that that behaviour be put upon anyone, whether you're privately looking to rent out a bedroom or you are a property manager, it's just not called for in this society and how much that person acted. But again, we've just got people who are making rules and putting legislation into place that they don't genuinely understand that these situations do occur and occur more frequently than we would like them to.

Peter Schravemade (54:43) Yep. And the shared room one is one w I've I've come across personally. Like, you know how I say it's really hard to vet somebody. Even real estate agents who are professional get that wrong now. And with the the single prescribed form that they have in New South

Kasey McDonald (54:54) 100%.

Peter Schravemade (54:56) Wales and Victoria, it's made it even more difficult. But my my my middle child, my daughter, she is in a property that is leased and she is responsible for letting out the rooms in the house. Now we we have the full blessing of the That we've we had to actually hunt to find a property manager who would take this on. We found a great one who said, Yeah, I can do this. Here is the way best structured in order to do it. And basically the the other housemates aren't on a lease. They're an approved, what do you call it? Approved occupant, I think is the word that yeah, which doesn't give them any rights as as lessors. But it's interesting. So the this one went south. I happen to be There'd been a number of things in the lead up to it, but the the one that bro broke the the straw that broke the camel's back, which was my back, by the way, not not my daughter's. She wouldn't do anything about it. But I I happened to be on the phone to her. We were watching the State of Origin together, like or on f FaceTime, you know, just commenting because we couldn't be in the same room together.

Peter Schravemade (55:58) We were watching it at the same time. And this this lady came in, the one of the tenants and started like the the the abuse that she was throwing at my daughter was unacceptable. And so I I basically told her as an approved occupant, y whatever you've paid up to, you're entitled to stay here until that point, but you need to find another, another another property rent. I called her up and told her that. Now she tried to pull everything. She contacted the RTA. And by the way, this is a big problem with the RTA because they didn't understand that she wasn't on a lease. No property manager would ever do that. So she's just an approved occupant. So she starts getting These documents coming through to us that apply imply that she has a lease, even though she's never signed anything. And I was just responding to the RTA going, You're so out of your depth on this one. Like, but yeah, you know, that that resolved. But that's how difficult it is for somebody who knows exactly what's going on with the support of a professional. It's just, it's too hard. It's too hard. It it, you know, I I couldn't do it myself.

Peter Schravemade (57:03) And I'm I'm grateful for the support of her fantastic property manager Blake, who was down on the Gold Coast. He made he made all of that smooth. He even offered to come and assist the the tenant in moving out and whatever else. Anyway, enough of enough of that. We're we're I think moving forward. So we've got next week's episode and I wouldn't mind checking back in to see how the auction changes in Victoria are going down there. Been awfully silent. I've seen a few people say

Follow-ups and next week

Kasey McDonald (57:33) Yes.

Peter Schravemade (57:34) That the I've seen a f a few stats to say that the auction clearance rates have fallen, but I don't know if you know the actual amount of auctions are are still the same. So we might have a bit of a look at that. I think we said when we spoke to Andy a couple of weeks ago that we'd come back and have a look at that. And we've got a couple of follow-ups from this week that we'll cover off on next week. But I think as far as as far as the twenty or sorry, the second of October, the twenty first episode that we've had. We're we're pretty much at a wrap. Kasey, is there anything else that we need to cover off this week? What have you got going on for the next week? I know that's a double, double barrel question.

Kasey McDonald (58:14) Well, NRL grand final on the weekend. So I'd like to know. Yeah. Who are you supporting? Newcastle or the Roosters?

Peter Schravemade (58:17) Of course. Well Well yeah out of these two.

NRL grand final and sign-off

Kasey McDonald (58:23) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (58:24) I'd probably in Newcastle, probably, you know, 'cause it's been a a while between drinks. And there was all of the there was all of the issues. Of course my team got up last week, the Lions back, you know, three three-peat. I've got a couple of friends over in Perth and they're three A supporters and I don't think it went down well with them, but it was a cracking game. But yeah, dealing with your side of the rugby league. And yeah,

Kasey McDonald (58:43) Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (58:47) Yes, my team, the the Broncos, well, we don't want to discuss their s their season because it wasn't wonderful. Let's let's look forward to 2027.

Kasey McDonald (58:52) Mm hmm. Yeah. Yes.

Peter Schravemade (58:56) But the yeah, the I think I'd like to see the n Knights win romantically, like as in because they haven't done it in such a long time and it would be such a flash out of the band. They weren't expected to br beat the Panthers, but taking out Taking out Cleary early, that was a that was a game changing decision. Obviously, my thoughts and prayers to Nathan Cleary and the guy who did it. What was his name? Obviously I think it was an accident, but everyone will have their say on that.

Kasey McDonald (59:25) Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (59:29) Yeah, unfortunate, unfortunate. But here we've got the Roosters, we've got the Chooks and and the Novocastrians in. So neither of those teams are dear to my heart. So there's a question as to whether I'm gonna

Kasey McDonald (59:40) No.

Peter Schravemade (59:42) Be watching it, but I figure in your household somebody will be screaming at the TV. I mean, he won't be Ahee because the Wahs are gone, right? So

Kasey McDonald (59:49) No, well, you know, the big man's off to the grand final actually, because he had an immense, immense confidence that the Wahs are going to get in. Yeah,

Peter Schravemade (59:54) I see he's going to it. He thought the Wahs were gonna get in. He thought the w so this who is he going for?

Kasey McDonald (1:00:01) So, so I think he's going for Newcastle as well, know, Kalyn Ponga obviously being a also Maori boy in the side. So he's got

Peter Schravemade (1:00:09) Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Kasey McDonald (1:00:10) The support there. But yes, no, he's got his grand final Wahs shirt. That he's going to be wearing even though there was an audience there. So anyway, I will be watching it. I'll be watching it from home and the big man's going to be at the game. I'm having a great time. Yeah. In his Wahs shirt. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:00:28) Okay. Well may maybe you should come over here and watch it. Maybe maybe you should crash our joint. Because I wasn't gonna watch it. I I would figure I'd see it in the news, but yeah, maybe I'll turn it on. Next week, got a lot, a lot happening. I'm down in Sydney for a bit. I'm I'm off to what have I we've got our REACH graduation next Friday in Brisbane. So I I I know from now till the end of November. I have functions and events and conferences every single week and every single weekend. So we're on the home straight to the end of 2027. I can't believe I'm saying that and it's October already, but that's where we're at. And I suppose if you're if you're in real estate, if you are a property professional, you will have your own structure heading at you for the rest of the year. And I certainly hope things are picking up around the traps. Send us your feedback, hello@beforetheweekend.com. We'd love to hear from you. Send us any feedback, any stories, any suggestions for people we should have on the program. But from Kasey and myself, who are obviously going to be watching the football either together or separately over the weekend.

Peter Schravemade (1:01:38) By the way, Eb's abandoned me. She's she's off at the she's off at the the Toowoomba flower show. I mean,

Kasey McDonald (1:01:45) Right.

Peter Schravemade (1:01:46) Look at our lives now. We're not old. We

Kasey McDonald (1:01:51) You've just slightly matured and decided of a different option on the weekends. Yeah.

Peter Schravemade (1:01:55) Yeah, that's it. I'm also not going to the Toowoomba flower show, but it's it's funny how our respective partners are doing their thing this weekend. Anyway, whatever you're doing this weekend, I hope you are successful and have happy hunting. For all the open homes and whatever else that you're listening to this at, we'd love to hear from you. You can find us on all the scream streaming screaming services. You find us on the streaming services. Kasey, over to you.

Kasey McDonald (1:02:20) Yeah, everyone have a fabulous weekend. Do hope that the sun keeps shining. What a, you know, we've had a brilliant week here in Queensland, but for around Australia, you know, the spring selling season probably hasn't been as bouncy or as floral as what everyone is wanting it to be. But I do hope that this weekend brings, you know, everyone's success in the market, whether you're leasing and or selling, but from both Pete and I have a fabulous weekend and that's a wrap on Before the Weekend.